Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
E14: Beat Writer, Justin Rogers, on Betting Big and Lions Insights
On this episode of 'Talking Grit,' hosts Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton welcome former Detroit News beat writer Justin Rogers. Rogers, recently left the Detroit News to start the Detroit Football Network, discussed his transition, the new venture, and the insights it offers to Detroit Lions fans. The conversation covered various topics, including the unique 'Meijer podium' at press conferences, the performance and potential of the Lions' current roster, and specific players. Rogers shared his thoughts on the wide receiver competition, depth issues on the team, and more. The discussion concluded with a look at Rogers' personal approach to journalism and the support he's received from the Lions community since launching his new platform.
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Welcome to talking grit. I'm Jason Harwood. And with me is Jacob Litton. We have a special guest today. You know, him from his time at M live and then with the Detroit news. He's been a beat writer for the Lions for the last 12 years. He's Justin Rogers. Justin recently left the Detroit news and bet on himself. He's starting the Detroit football network. It's a free and subscriber based service that I highly recommend. I'm a subscriber myself. So Justin is used to asking the questions, but now it's our turn to ask him the questions. And the only thing that we're missing is a giant Meijer podium. And, uh, thank you for joining us, Justin. And how are you doing?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:you can't see me either way. So I think, uh, you know, the absence of the Meyer podium is, is felt in spirit.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Oh, my gosh. So that thing is, I haven't seen it in person yet, but the pictures that, um, that you've posted and other people have posted is, are quite hilarious.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:I think my favorite thing was when I brought the measuring tape, cause I was just curious and, you know, you do the math really quickly and you're like 66, 800 cubic inches. Like it just makes it all the more humorous to me. Um, but you know, I'm glad that I was, I was kind of being, um, cautious about, you know, using internal terms. I didn't want to throw anybody under the bus for giving anything away, but I was glad one of the PR people walked through the room the other day and called it the name that I've, I've heard a lot of people calling it and that is the Zamboni. Uh, and, and once you hear it and then see it, like you can't unsee it. Like, I just want to go up there and slap a couple headlights on this thing and, and, uh, you know, really bring it home.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Who, I wonder who designed that thing and was Dan Campbell like there and they just took his measurements cause he's the only one that could touch both sides of the podium comfortably.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, it definitely was designed with one person in mind. Uh, I would, I would love to, to dig in deeper, but I, you know, this is not inside information. This is, this is strictly speculative, but I, I don't think it's long for this world. I really don't, because it just, you know, you're, they're going to have to, to come up with a new Um, new option or you're going to have to come up with a stepstool, you know, some kind of, I said, be cool if you had like the big giant SUV where the step kind of drops down, uh, when, when you open the door, like that's what it needs, you know, it needs something to, to bring up the Caliph Rayman's and the Aaron Glenn's of the world to, to not look ridiculous.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy. I, they didn't test run that, but yeah, it's provided some content for you, at least on Twitter. So.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:It's probably built by Meyer. They want to put our logo on there really big. So like, just make a bigger podium.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:All right, Jacob, you want to get started with your question?
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah. So I like to ask this question to pretty much everybody that comes on. We both answered it in our first episode too, but who was the quarterback when you first became a lions fan? So when you first started really caring about it and you were really into it, who was the quarterback of that team?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:so that's that's a layered question for me. Um, because as a, as a journalist, I'm, I'm not a fan, uh, per se, uh, but I did grow up in this area. So, um, I would, I would really have to, to dig back on, you know, when I was watching as a kid, and that would have probably been around the, you know, very, very late eighties, very early nineties. So it was probably that, uh, Rodney Pete, you know, Eric Kramer, Andre Ware, uh, carousel was, was probably the first, uh, quarterbacks that I remember watching as a, as a kid. And then, you know, as I transitioned into the job, um, you know, my first year on the beat was 2011. So it was, uh, Matthew Stafford season at that point. So, you know, Matthew Stafford was all I knew for a really, really long time. You know, it was more about, you know, who was the backup, you know, it's the rotating door of backup. So, you know, that was. Yes. Sean Hill. When I popped on
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah, that's fine. Sean Hill is like the last, like really good, competent backup that I, that I remember with lions. So yeah, that's, I mean, not saying that there wasn't any past that, but that's the one that I was like, when he got put in, I was like, okay, we can actually still win some games. Uh,
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:good dude too. And I don't know, like you, you remember quirky things about people. And for some reason, Sean Hill was really into like the vocab word of the day. I don't know if you got some kind of like daily email. And so like, you'd walk into the locker room and that was what he wanted to talk about. He wanted to quiz you on the word of the day. So, you know, it's just these weird quirks that, that individuals have in the locker room that you just, you never forget,
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:yeah, It's gotta be nice for you just to kind of get to know them on a, you know, a personal level a little bit, and then you can, you know, include that in some of your writings And, stuff like that.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Absolutely. And, you know, I, I'll just say this, you're in that locker room. Daily, it's 45 minutes and and you really don't know Even if the guys know your name even been there for years Like i'm a hundred percent convinced that jmo has no idea what my name is and that's that's fine. Like it it happens but then Um, you know when you do something like I did and you launch this this publication and you you announce you're leaving Uh, you know the the publication you've been at Um, you kind of do recognize, uh, the guys that know you and and the the work you did and I'm sure some of you guys saw the the tweets from some of the players and there's been several maybe more than a dozen players and coaches that have kind of come up to me and and talk to me about it since then you just kind of casual conversations and so um you know it you really do over time you know kind of resonate in that locker room and and do build those relationships and they do.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah, I was just going to say it's cool. I mean, you read your work and everything, you can tell the relationships that you built with everybody. Um, you know, recently you were taking a bath, uh, next to one of the players. Any way to get an interview, right?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, I mean, it may sound like it was, there was bubbles involved and you know, look at that. That's what it takes. That's what it takes, but.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:I'm going to make
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:that, that, that interview can happen at any time and I could write a Dan Skipper story and, um, you know, there are going to be people that read it and with the quality of the answers he gave me in that setting, you know, it would, it would have been really good, but you know, how do you make it more interesting and get more people talking about it, more people wanting to watch it. So, you know, it's, it's the type of thing that I want to do more of. Um, you know, it's a he's a guy that does he hops in the ice bath every day and there aren't many guys that that are in that that daily and so it was it was just kind of a you know a strike of inspiration and you know, I asked him and you know cleared it first through him then he cleared through pr and uh, you know, I I kind of wrote this somewhere else like there was there was a symbolism to it to me because It was very very uncomfortable But that's kind of what I'm doing right now is I'm, I'm trying to make myself uncomfortable one with the decision to even start this venture. But, but also to, to think outside the box in some way, shape or form, um, you know, a little bit more regularly because you can't just be the same as everybody else, even if you're, um, you know, you have a price point that you think is, is more competitive, like ultimately you've got to find a way to. To maximize your value to the readers and you know that that was um, you know, really a A test run for that and i'm i'm really happy with the way it turned out. I you know, I not only was it Goofy and silly and you know, um, you know a little bit of self deprecating Humor, it was a really good interview And so you kind of got all the elements you wanted to go for and and you set a bar for You know ideas going forward.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:It's got to be liberating to have all that open to, you know, coming from the newspaper, when you said, you know, you have to listen to a boss, you have, you know, time constraints and all those things. And now, you know, everything you, you just let answer to yourself and to your audience, right? I mean, that, is that the way you're feeling?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, and and I will say this and i've said it elsewhere. You know, I I had A really really good setup at the trick news like I I had almost Full autonomy to to do what I want and write what I want in the seven years. I was there. I had Three assignments. So of the thousands of articles I wrote, I wrote what I wanted when I wanted to write it and you have content expectations in terms of length, because you've got to produce a newspaper every day and you gotta, you know, make sure you're, you're, you're serving that audience and serving your bosses in that way. But. There, there is a looseness and a freedom to the way you present the content, right? Like when you're a, when you're a traditional journalist and it will forever remain the foundation of what I do, like there's, there's a rigidity to the structure of how. Your your tone is and so I can um, you know, I was able to play with that occasionally at the detroit news and you know features like the mailbag you can Take a little bit more of a a playful personable tone, but I can I can do that in anything now like I can interject opinion and the way I see it is it's it's kind of following a a path that that tom kowalski plays right and i'm not Trying to be Tom Kowalski. I never did, uh, because that's not possible, but, you know, you can still borrow elements and pay tribute in that way, and then, um, you know, on top of that, like, In terms of an ice bath video, like if I said I was going to do that to my boss, the journalist, he'd be like, sure, fine, whatever, you know, like that's, that's great. But
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:to
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:ultimately what I've got to produce for the newspaper now is a, is a written version of that story. And you know, I don't, I don't have to do that here. I have more flexibility in the way I present the content. Um, you know, and it be more light and humorous and personality driven. I think that's where the freedom comes. Not in the the decision, you know, I never had any demands or pressures on me to write a specific thing or a specific Uh narrative but just you know to to give a little bit more of myself to the audience that's that's been You know liberating.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:You're definitely achieving that.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah, I, uh, you are. And. You know, along with you giving yourself to your audience and listening to what they had to say, I mean, there's plenty of information in those articles. I mean, those daily, you know, the pressers and scrums that you produce makes you feel like, Hey, I was at practice. I get, I understand what the main. Things that happened at this practice, who stood out. Um, I really appreciate it. And I think anyway, that subscribes to the service would really appreciate it. Cause it makes you feel like I saw the training camp practice. I, Jacob and I were there last Thursday and I reread the one that you wrote, um, from that, from that day. And I was like, that's pretty accurate of what we saw. And, and, you know, we were there that day. So I got to compare. So that makes me feel like the days I'm not there, I'm still there. It's great.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, the nice thing about that post and that's like, you know, that was just kind of one I thought maybe innovation I wanted to to tackle is You know that the press conferences and and kind of the big News gathering, um, interviews with, with star players are the players that the PR staff and training can't bring to the podium as kind of the, the bread and butter of what you do on the daily job. And, you know, I would be writing two, three, four stories a day. Just from those and then doing other stuff on on top of that and you know at the detroit news I had nolan so we were you know working together to to manufacture stuff out of the press conferences But also, you know manufacture original content that brings value to your readers to your publication And you know, I don't have nolan anymore. I'm doing this on myself And so that's a you know something I have to replace and so instead of ignoring, you know Kind of the heart of the day Which to me is, is publicly available information. Those are things where Detroit lions. com cameras are there, uh, you know, recording Campbell every day, recording these player press sessions every day. Um, you know, I wanted to make people aware of what it was going, but just in one spot and to me, you know, these are, are philosophical discussions you have with your boss and this, this subscriber model world, like to me, that stuff that's available in group settings. Should never be something that's a subscriber. Base story like that. Anybody can have that. Anybody can go on detroitlines. com and watch the video Uh, it is already out there. So if everybody's got it, like why why should I make that? Something you've got to pay to read so that pressure subscribers thing was designed from the beginning to Give me something that the people that you know don't want to pay and that's that's there's going to be plenty of them That's fine. It's probably 80 percent of my subscribers right now are free. They're every day going to get that recap You Of of the stuff that you know, it's publicly available. They don't have to go consume it they can they can allow me to process it for them and give them a one stop shop and Um, it just seemed like the right thing to do to stay connected to an audience that you know Maybe isn't ready to pull that trigger as a subscriber, but make sure they get that gets them the the money The heart of the day's news and allows me to go have the freedom to to do more of the original content the one on one interviews to to give Value to the people that that are subscribing to give them that extra layer of depth to to the coverage
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Well, I think you're doing it and it's, I love it. So, um, just before we transition to some lions questions, where can the readers go that are listening to this for the first time and say, Hey, I'm going to subscribe. I like this. So where, where would they go, Justin?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, I I picked a url that I thought was simple and uh avoided any Trademark issues that you can deal with within the nfl if you try to throw in, you know, their league or team names so Uh, you are able to find me at DetroitFootball. net.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:That's simple. All right. Detroit football. net. Yep. All right. Justin, are you ready to handle some lions questions?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Always.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:The Lions are heading off for joint practices with the New York Giants before their preseason game this Thursday. What are you looking for in these joint practices? What are you most interested in seeing?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, it's, it's a really interesting time to be covering the Lions because for the first time, You know really ever like the the starting lineup, it's not completely set but there are just so few mysteries about who's starting It's you know, it's wide receiver three and it's it's nickel corner Of course i'm going to be you know monitoring those because the starters are the most important players But you know what I want to see in these joint practices is Um, you're, you're looking at the young guys a lot of times, the, both the, the rookies and the, the first year to second year players, because those are the guys that are, you know, generally making the largest developmental jumps. And so you want to see our, have what you've been seeing in the, the, the practices between teammates. Is that real? You know, is, is Terry on Arnold ahead of the curve in terms of a rookie cornerback because I, I, you know, genuinely believe that that he is performing at a much higher level than that Darius Slay was as a rookie. Um, is, is Ennis Raigstraw able to, you know, continue getting his hands on, on footballs? Is, uh, you know, Jack Campbell taking the step? Forward. That appears as Levi owns a Rike, the real deal. Like he has been, you know, one of the best players at camp. The way I worded it today is if there were train camp awards, he would win both most improved income back player of the year and get MVP votes. Like he has been good. You know, how does that port over against another team? Because, you know, there is something to be said about learning your teammates, tendencies from seeing them every day and that giving you, uh, an advantage when you know how to utilize those things against them. So when you see somebody fresh. That's new that you don't have those tendencies that you you're falling back more on your your fundamentals and your athletic gifts. I want to see are they translating for those young players
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:Definitely. I wanted to see our defense to see what they look like against a different offense. Just because we know how good our offense is. And like you said, you know, you're going against the same people every day. Right? Absolutely. The giants don't particularly have a great offense in the past, but I mean, for our young players to get a shot at a different offense, just be interesting to see if they're actually holding up at they're performing at the same level.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:for sure. And the defensive line in particular, right? They've looked very good. And I know I know Ben Johnson shouted them out. Um, the run aspect of it is carrying over from a year ago when they were one of the better run defenses of football. They're going to be better this year and they're going to be even better once you know, DJ reader gets gets cleared because he's one of the better run stuffing. defensive tackles of football but the the pass rush has has looked better too. You know, and that starts with Aiden Hutchinson who does look like he's, you know, gonna take another step forward. He's already, you know, very good but can he go from very good to to elite and I, you know, I think that is uh a reasonable expectation in year three and I've been really impressed with with what I've seen from Davenport so far. You know, it's it's not a lot of time on the practice field uh since it's been medically cleared but You, you see the power, you see the disruption. Surprisingly, you see a really unique ability to kind of drop and cover some of the running backs coming out of the backfield. And, uh, you, you see what the lions. Envision when they brought him aboard as as that complimentary piece to Hutchinson. So, um you you wanna see how this this line holds up. Is it is it going to continue to have the impact it's had in the first 2 weeks of training camp against teammates? Will it continue against the Giants and look that offensive line is as you kind of alluded to isn't isn't great and so um you know it's it's a good chance to continue that momentum and and build some more confidence. Within
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:All right, so let's stick with this defensive line. So with the DJ reader, like injury uncertainty, because we don't know exactly when he's going to come back, how vital is Levi's development to the success of this line? And if Levi does develop it to a potential starter, does that cement the 2021 draft class is one of the greatest of all time? For the lions.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Oh Man, we were talking about that the other day like the the draft class is just it's preposterous top to bottom um, you know, it's it's kind of amusing because like I don't I don't know how the roster pattern develops, but even jamar jefferson, you know, kind of the the the black sheep of that that group the the forgotten one because he's a Seventh round pick so who cares if your seventh round picks don't develop like it's great if they do but Yeah You're not handicapped as a franchise if they don't, but he's looked phenomenal in training camp and it's, it's really caught me off guard. And it, you know, you don't know where the path is because of the depth they've built at running back, particularly with the addition of Aki, but Jefferson, you know, has, has made an early case for, for consideration for a job. And so, uh, you know, to go back to the defensive line, it, it really does to have, you know, Levi stepping up and. Look, there's a difference between the style of play with a DJ reader and a Levi on Zurica. You know, one is a stout, two gap space eater that is run stopping is the priority, and Levi's more of the penetrating, quick first step, slice into the backfield type interior lineman, and it's why they're, you know, You know even experimenting with him a little bit on the edge as a as a five technique and so um, you know, there isn't a a one to one replacement per se but Uh, it still gives you more confidence in the depth of your rotation while you're waiting for that to develop um, you know, i'm a little bit more interested in you know, roger martin's ability to to serve as a stop gap because You know, he is that that skill set replacement as a as a more of a run stuffing nose tackle I Would imagine that there's going to be a little bit more are they they hope that they could put a little bit more on on broderick martin's plate to to start this season to cover those first one, two, three, four games that that readers out but You know, you do have the ability to kind of, even though you've moved McNeil and you have them in that three tech now, you can, you can shift it back and have it play a little bit more of a run stopper in these early weeks to, to get you across that bridge.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:It looked like they had, uh, I don't know if it's Pico or Peko, like he was the practice we saw. Uh, he was out there with the ones also trying to kind of fill that role,
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:hundred percent. Nope. You're on, you're onto something there. And you know, that's a veteran that's, that's played a lot of football. You know, the, the, almost the definition of a stopgap, right? A guy that is experienced, that signed a one year deal that's, um, minimum or not much more than minimum at. Not only that, he has playing time experience with the position coach, Terrell Williams. So, you know, there's, there's familiarity, which, which breeds comfort. Uh, you know, I think there's a, you know, an increasingly good chance that, you know, that's a guy that maybe you didn't think much of when they signed. It just felt like it might be another body, but, um, you know, he can serve as, as that, that bridge and, you know, if he, if he shows out as, as productive there in the first four games and fulfilling his assignments, you know, there's. There's a chance a guy like that sticks and makes a difference.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:We're going to move over to some wide receiver talk here. Wide receiver three is obviously a hot button topic. You mentioned it earlier. That's one of the few starting jobs that maybe he's up for grabs. So we know that Dries Fountain has been getting a lot of reps with the ones. Uh, is, I just want to know in your opinion, is this a case of the lion seeing what they have in him? Because they already know what they have with DPJ or are they really is Dries Fountain the front runner for that wide receiver three position right now?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:No, it's, it's a really good question. And, um, you know, it shows you're thinking at a different level about how maybe practice reps work, but, um, I, I do think they, they like what they have and, uh, you know, they want to see more of it, right. Cause now it's a sample size question. You know, we saw it in practice last year. We thought it was pretty good. Let's go see what it looks like in a full off season where he's been in the system. All right. We like it. So far, let's give them some reps with the ones. And, and with those opportunities, you know, outside of one bad practice and it, it was a bad practice. He did not. You know, shy away from that. Uh, he's, he seems like a pretty self aware individual, but outside of that, that one day with a couple of drops, like Fountain is a guy that you notice every single day doing something. And it's, it's different things, which I think is good that you're, you know, you're not a one trick pony, if you will. Cause that's, that's a phrase that's been used in this training camp about other, other players. He's making contested casters in short areas. He's. Absolutely, I think the best high point receiver and the ability to go up and make a catch over a defender that the highest point of his leaping ability, which, by the way, he posted a 42 and a half inch vertical leap coming out of college. He was a state. Holder and the 110 meter hurdles of coming out of high school. Like the guy has springs for knees. And then you also see, you know, at least at some level, some deep ball ability and some specialty documents. So, you know, I, I had really thought that, that Khalif Raymond was going to be, you know, the, the, the guy just because of his, um, You know, his familiarity with the coaching staff, the trust Jared Goff has in him. But, you know, when Ben Johnson threw in that little tiny line at the end of what they were looking for the receiver, it was consistency and intelligence. And you're like, yep, check, check, Kalief, Kalief. And then he said, but if we were being picky or greedy or whatever the term was he used, he'd really like some length at that spot. It's like, oh, oh yeah. And so I think we all assumed that it was going to be DPJ when, when Reynolds left and, you know, the lions went out and acquired. People's Jones with, with a tent with purpose last year. Um, he didn't do a lot in terms of, of how reps just because you get dropped in the middle season, but when he did do something, it was eye catching. And so you just thought with a year, like he was going to be the guy, but fountain has, has without question, uh, stood out over him and, uh, You know, there's, there's plenty of time and preseason games and joint practices have a way of flipping trajectories really, really quickly. But, um, you know, if I was to pick today, who that number three receiver would be, or at least, uh, the largest piece of the pie, because look, Raymond is going to see, you know, Plenty of playing time. Uh, I, I would say it's, it's going to be fountain. Talk to me in a week and we'll see if I'm still there.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:I think the preseason games are going to be huge for him.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:That's what I was about to say per, you know, going these practices, seeing what he's going to look like in the preseason. All right. I'm going to stick with the wide receivers. JMO has been getting rave reviews from everyone that's witnessed him at practice. Like for you, what is part of his game is, has expanded, uh, the most or, you know, why, why is he, why the sudden switch? we all raving over
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:I'd like to say that I'm kind of proud of the fact that I have not written a JMO story yet. Like it's, it's really, really easy to do because he is an absolute fan favorite. And on top of that, there's, there's a natural curiosity because his, his speed is just, you know, something that is so, so rare and so people are, are so hyped and I've, I've been kind of picking away. At that trying to trying to get away from the the the press conference quotes and talk to people one on one and kind of get more You know perception, but the very first thing that jumped out the start of this off season was the deep ball tracking You you knew he had the speed to get past defenders but you know if you've watched him the last two years like there's this this inconsistency in his ability to Get to the football and i've said this for a while. Like I feel like When the ball is on the inside, when he's coming from the outside to the middle of the field, like, his tracking is, is fine, it's, it's good from there, but when it's over his outside shoulder, when he's tracking those, those sideline balls, like, it, it just, those, those, I mean, simply put, it wasn't good. It wasn't good enough. And you've seen this pretty significant step in his ability to to track those balls this year And I've you know I've been kind of picking away and trying to get different perspectives of why people think it did and I You know finally was able to to pull jamo aside after his session the other day and get his input So i'll get around to that eventually Um, you know a little bit more of an in depth thing there, but it's it's not just the deep ball It really is like You you hate when you ask a player, what are you working on? And they say everything because it's it's a it's not a cop out. It's always true, but it's it's kind of boring and cliche You'd like them to really hone in on something specific to make the story interesting to to readers, but It really is true with jameson. Like you see a guy that is improving in every little thing You know, he dropped a pass the other day. It was the first one. I saw him drop which is such a contrast to You Last year when it might have been, you know, for that stretch of, uh, when he came back from suspension at the year, the worst hands I've ever seen on a receiver in a Detroit Lions practice in my 12 years covering the beat, like it just, it was almost like he had the yips and you know, he's, he's cured that he's running a little bit more of a, um, uh, a reliable route tree for the quarterback. It's not that he couldn't run the routes before, but, um, Um, you know, Jared Goff is trusting him both because of the hands at the, uh, the timing and, uh, uh, placement of where he is in, you know, in the, the timing and structure of those plays. And so it's all the little things that he's doing. Right. And I think the one thing that's going to be key for him to, you know, really, really explode as a, as a playmaker is he just has to slow down. And I know that seems counterintuitive. You know, I. I compared him recently to this, uh, it's a, you know, a personal anecdote, but I, I was hanging out with a friend and I was going to his house and I got there before he did. And he texts me, he's like, Hey, can you let the dog out? Sure. It was a new dog and he adopted from shelter and I got in and the dog was, was in a kennel, a crate, and like, as soon as I walked through the door, that, that crate was just rocking. I mean, the dog was so excited, wagging his tail, banging against the sides, and, you know, you open the door and the dog just comes running out full speed, running in circles, running back and forth, and, um, I had to go to the bathroom and I didn't open the screen door and the dog ran right through the screen door and I, and I think that that's kind of how I think about Jamison Williams and the fact that his speed is so crazy that he sometimes gets going so fast his, his brain is not able to keep up with his body. And it's, you know, I think it's something that very few of us can, you know, appreciate or understand. And so there are times where even if you go 85 percent of the speed as Jameson Williams, you're faster than anybody else. And if you take that, just that little bit off the gas, it allows you to concentrate a little bit more on, on making sure you secure the catch to really process how you're going to break down the defender that's in your way in the open field So, you know, To make that man miss and I think that is Going to be the thing that if he can get it down and he's he's made progress already I'll say that he's made progress between last year to this year if he can refine it even more like that'll be the thing that that takes him from a good number two to a Really, really legitimate game in and game out threat to do damage.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:That's really interesting. And, uh, one thing I equate that you talk about the speed, uh, Jameer Gibbs seemed like at the beginning of last year, his rookie year had that too, where he was kind of running out of his shoes. He'd come times, just miss a cut or something like that, but it seemed to slow down for him in the second half. And that's when you really seen him take off. So do you see a similar trend? Type thing with, uh, JMO, as far as like maybe just being more intentional with your speed.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah. I, you know, I, like I said, I've seen a little bits of it, but you know, I think you, you want to see that be like an area of continued development. It's, it's tough, you know, how do you tell a guy that's always been fast and everybody to just, just pump the brakes just a little bit, just a little bit, and it probably comes more naturally to a running back. Uh, to, to work on your, your vision and your patience. It's, it's hammered home so much more at that position to wait for your blocks to develop and It's a little bit different for a receiver because they're operating in space, but even the drop that that Williams had the other day, like I said, he's had one that I can recall in camp, but it was a short pass over the middle. He sat down on his own, did exactly what he was supposed to do. The ball arrived chest high, and it was the epitome of a concentration drop. He was already thinking about. Turning up field and what he was gonna do to the defender, that was gonna be the first one to arrive to him. And you, you can't forget the most important thing, which is catching the football. And again, he's made progress. There's, there's no question that he isn't doing that as often. It's all about from now, the incremental improvements to do it less and less and less. Um, you hear it all the time. Consistency is the name of the game. So as long as you're making those small strides.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:Uh,
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:know, that, that's all you can ask from, from a, from a young receiver like that.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:All right. That's interesting. And also just the development to a fan favorite. I think people liked them before, but it's the crowd is just
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:a
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:going crazy. Each practice. So, um, that's awesome to see.
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:looking
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah. It's like, I don't know, he's, he's very much like a big kid. Um, he likes to have fun. He,
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:reasons
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:um,
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:understand that
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:a trash talker that
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:up.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:you're always going to be enamored as a fan with speed. And so, um, he's, he's just generally speaking, likable and interesting. And so. Uh, it's not surprising at all to me to see, to see fans in it. And I, you know, he's, he, even though he's had kind of this, this rough patch to, to start his career, like it's never developed into something toxic between him as fans. You look at maybe the difference between how he's handled it. And never made it personal versus, you know, maybe somebody like an Eric Ebron, right, where, um, you know, when he had those struggles, he got combative, uh, in, in the social media sphere and, you know, it, it slowly caused fans to turn on him. There's a lot of similar personality traits and hype and potential with where Ebron and Jamo are coming from as young players. But, um, I guess maybe the way that they handled it, and I can't say that I wouldn't have handled it Ebron's way either. Like, I think we all, you know, have a weakness to criticism. Especially when we're younger and not Um, you know, it, it really does seem to just run off the back of, of Jameson Williams. It doesn't seem to affect him at all. And I, I think it just makes it even a little bit more endearing
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:One last question here before we let you go, Justin. Uh, when you're in. The training cap, um, and what are your, in your opinion, what are the depth issues with the current roster? And we know it's a deep roster, but if you had to pick a position or two, what is, where do you think the depth that could be improved?
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:kicker. I mean, like I, I, uh, everybody wants Jake Bates to be a thing. And, um, you know, honestly, like anybody who walks in that door, I'd like them to be a thing. You know, this is, this is their, their livelihood. If you're getting a chance, like you want to see a guy on an individual personal level, as a human level succeed. But, um, you know, he is really battling some struggles right now. And, you know, I commend the lions as I do with, You know, almost all their personnel decisions to, to giving him a leash in some breathing room to, to figure it out. You know, I think it's a big part of their cultural identity to, to, you know, be loyal and give a player time. Um, but I think that given the urgency and the importance of the kicking position, at the very least, they really need to add competition to that room. They can't. Continue on. I don't think with just Bates as their only kicker. Um, they're, they're just, there isn't enough of a track record one UFL season as a field goal kicker to believe to just put, you know, unquestioned belief that he's going to work it out. And so, if you believe competition brings out the best of everybody, then, you know, bring somebody else in that you, you believe could, you know, also. Be the guy for you, bring him in and let them duke it out. And so I think that's first and foremost, um, you know, position that, you know, you'd like to see the lions address. And then, you know, there's, there's still, as I would say, probably with every single team in the NFL, um, you know, some, some concerns about the backup offensive line. You know, uh, the Lions have had some,
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:Yeah.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:was a lot of guys, a lot of, uh, guy, a lot of people expect it to to be a piece this year, but you know, I was a, that was a guy I really liked coming out of the draft and he's just had injury issues. Well, you know, suffered another one out for the year, uh, Coyote is, is down right now. I'm not really sure the extent of that. Um, it's probably, you know, something we need to ask Campbell and, you know, Christian Mahogany is dealing with this, uh, mystery illness that. Is is serious enough that it's it's kept him on nfi for Two weeks and and the way campbell talked about it made it sound like you know, there's not this Impression that he's going to be back soon. So you're you're a little concerned about depth at guard behind the two starters offensive tackle, you know, Dan Skipper. I think we know who he is. Uh you can get by in a pinch. It's he's got plenty of experience. Uh Colby is a guy they really want to be a thing uh understandably but you know, there's there's a rawness there jumping from from William and Mary a year ago. So, uh you're you're starting line up with the offensive line is as good as any um in the NFL but we know very well that the last 3 years. There's been something that's popped up every single year and by something I mean multiple somethings. It's it's just been a a string of unfortunate things that has kept that five from being on the field together. So you need guys that can step in. You need reliability. And I think it would be encouraging if you could see some of those guys take a step forward here in the three preseason games.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:All right. All right, Justin, I want to thank you for your time. You've been very gracious to jump on our show. Your answers are, uh, insightful to say the least and, and joyful, um, to listen to, for those listening that may have not subscribed to Justin's Detroit Football Network service, this is what you get. You get thoughtful answers that are above just cut and dry, cut and paste answers. And he takes a unique angle, um, on All his articles that make you feel like you get to know the player a little bit better, or, you know, get to learn something about how the lions view a player. And it just, I can't recommend it highly enough. I've I'm a subscriber myself, read all the articles, first article I'll read from, um, from a Detroit writer. So, uh, Justin, thank you so much. again, it's Detroit football. net. Correct.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Correct.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Just go there. I implore you to subscribe. Um, any last words, uh, Justin,
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:uh, I will say that you, you have undersold yourself as a subscriber. I think you are the subscriber. I, uh, I did have a good chuckle when I, you know, um, you know, just put it out there that I had, um, crossed a hundred thousand pages or whatever in the first six days and you, you quickly chimed in and said, jokes on you. I'm paraphrasing are pretty close, but jokes on you. I'm 99, 000 of those. Uh, I laughed cause it, you know, you, you have been. Genuinely one of the uh, I guess most supportive or more most loyal on it. It's honestly it's a reason why Uh, I didn't hesitate to hop on with you today. You know, it's it's sometimes hard to find time for All the different interviews that requests that come your way you know blessed to have a nine hour drive to knock some of these out today, but Um, I I don't say yes to everybody because it's just not possible. And so, um, You know, I want to flip that, that appreciation on to you a little bit. And, um, you know, in the greater sense, the, the appreciation to everybody, um, it has been, the support has been validating, humbling, overwhelming. Uh, I am, you know, having some out the gate success that I could not have imagined to the degree that I am. And, um, you know, just gives me even more confidence that I did the right thing and even more drive to. Continue to provide what I'm providing but also to provide more than what I'm providing and maybe that's not quantity but it's it's quality and creativity like I'm I'm just So incredibly motivated right now to to do what I'm doing. Um, and it's it's because Of the support that I'm getting.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:I'm enjoying being part of the, your network and just talking with people that know football. Cause we're all in the same vein. Um, I think a lot of your subscribers are well informed, uh, and just want to be more informed and I, and. You know, one thing that I just kind of, before I leave, I would be at a miss to say, you know, Dave Phipp called you out in the press conference and to me, that was amazing. That was a just amazing amount of respect. And do you want to speak on that at all? Because me, that was, It was awesome that someone of that stature called you out and just praised you for what, your decision.
justin-rogers_2_08-04-2024_080049:Yeah, I mean, I think it speaks to two things one You know kind of some of what we talked about earlier with You know, the conversations that happen more in private, um, you know, I, I, I've been really surprised and knocked back by how many players even noticed, including, you know, uh, many of the players on the roster, like you just. You would think with the, the things going on in their lives, not going to name names, but you know, maybe they have a Netflix show or got married, you know, things like that, you know, like that, that they would take notice of what's going on in my life that just, it, it, I don't know, it's just, it's, it's humbling, it's weird and I don't know what else to explain it. And, um, you know, it, it also speaks to who FIP is, you know, he's always been a guy that walking off the field has. You know, since I sat down and did a pretty lengthy interview with him about his relationship with his father, his first year here, which was, you know, a fairly emotional interview and ability to connect on a personal level. You know, he's always kind of taken interest in, in. My life beyond the job. Uh, and you know, I think we share kind of this, uh, curiosity about life. Um, you know, he's, he's a Renaissance man with doing weird things like beekeeping and homebrewing and. I'm kind of the same way. Like I like to just do weird things that I don't know what I'm doing. Um, but I like to, to test my limits. And so we've, we've kind of bonded on that. So when he found out I was doing this, you know, he was, he was excited. And, um, you know, for him to use his platform in that way, to share that excitement, I appreciate that. I had no idea, it was very unexpected, uh, but it was, it was really cool and I guess it just, it speaks to the man he is, you know, to, to want to do something like that for me, um, cause he knows that when special teams has a bad play, I'm going to come and I'm gonna ask the question on why, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the same reporter I always am and there's gonna be the the accountability that goes into the job that isn't, it can't be bought with kind words like I'm gonna do my job but the respect that exists there because of the way I've done it the right way and built the The personal relationship around that, um, you know, just it's, it's confirmation that, that, that approach has been the right one.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:Oh, you couldn't have said it any better. That's what I was going to say. Just if you treat people with respect and you know, you're doing your job, they get, they get that. And I think people take notice. The players obviously take notice because they're, you know, seeing what's going on in your personal life. So I think that speaks to your writing, uh, the way you treat the job. So I, Again, subscribe to the service. You're going to get all this. It's a unique view and you know, we all have, you know, a lot of the writers, we all, they, they all have access to the same content. It's just a matter of, um, the writing and putting you in that place and just, um, making you understand the whole picture as opposed to just what you're saying. So again, subscribe to a service, uh, do, do, do, do. Do him a favor and not even a favor. Do yourself a favor. Um, so,
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:for sure.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:um, just,
jacob-litton_1_08-04-2024_075933:than just what you see the highlights out of, you know, you see the quotes and everything for training camp, but the insight and everything he provides, definitely just awesome, awesome material.
jason-harwood_1_08-04-2024_075933:so I think we're going to get out of here. Justin's probably got some other he's, you know, he wants to listen to his tunes and his car on his way to New Jersey. So, um, you, Justin for, uh, showing up, providing awesome content for us. I appreciate it. And, uh, for Jacob, uh, let's go lions.
