Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
E18: Detroit Lions 53 Man Roster Prediction; Practice Squad Speculation
In this episode of Talking Grit, hosts Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton discuss their predictions for the Lions' 53-man roster, focusing on their choices and the latest developments. They delve into the significance of DJ Reader being activated from the physically unable to perform (PUP) list and what that means for the defense. The conversation covers positional picks including quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, edge rushers, linebackers, cornerbacks, and safeties. They analyze possible surprises and discrepancies in their lists, consider injury contingencies, and debate the final selections. Additionally, they touch on potential practice squad players and special teams considerations, emphasizing the upcoming roster cut decisions.
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Welcome everybody to another episode of Talking Grit. It's been so long since we've had an episode. It's been like one whole day. We just couldn't wait to talk to you guys again. So I'm Jason Harwood with me as Jacob Litton. Today we're going to talk roster construction, our. 53 man roster. Jacob and I each came up with one. I don't know who he picked and he doesn't know who I picked. So we're going to go through and see if we differ or see if we're alike and just discuss, you know, why we pick the way we pick. Before we get into that, the big news of today. And it goes along with the roster here, obviously, is DJ Reader was removed from the physically unable to perform list, you might hear it called as the pup list. You know, if he started the season on that, he wouldn't have been able to play, he would have missed the first four games. And then with Arbari week being week five, he would not have been able to play until week six. Them activating, which means he's going to be on the active roster, so that takes a roster spot, but that, The good news about that is they think he's gonna be ready before week four. Would it be week one? I don't know. He's gonna have two weeks, you know, to see if his body's ready to play in a game. But it means that we're gonna have DJ Raider sooner than week four. So I was pretty relieved when I saw that. What do you, what about you, Jacob?
Jacob Litton:Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, we, we didn't bring him here to sit on the bench, sit on the PUP list. So if he's, you know, nearing game action, that's really good to hear. That means that we're obviously expecting him to be coming sooner rather than later. And even though, you know, the people filling in for him have actually played pretty well thus far in the preseason. He's an impact player and we definitely need him out there.
Jason Harwood:I agree. Excellent run stopper. He can take on double teams. He's gonna free up a leam. So, you know, it's gonna be exciting to see him on the field and see how he does. Can't wait to see those practice reports to see, how he looks. But he hasn't played in a while and you know, it's going to take a little bit to get him up to football shape. So whether you can get that done in two weeks, I don't know. But if he is active for week one versus the Rams, I would expect a pretty light load, which, you know, you got a guy like Kyle Paco that's been playing pretty Pretty good ball in practice. Uh, so he might take a majority of reader snaps just that, you know, first couple of weeks until, uh, reader gets his feet underneath them,
Jacob Litton:That's the good thing about his position is that, you know, you really can put him, he can be active and he can still play in the game in a limited role without that many snaps versus, you know, obviously if you got a quarterback, there's just certain players that are much harder to get up to game speed like that defensive line, he's able to get some snaps in.
Jason Harwood:Like you said, didn't expect DJ reader to be in for 65 snaps in a game to begin with, uh, we'll just, those kind of rotate him in and out and he's going to be on there and primarily rushing downs or, you know, questionable, like. You know, mid distance second, second down. So it's not like we had to replace them for 65 snaps a game anyways. So, uh, I'm ready to get on my list. Are you ready?
Jacob Litton:Yeah, let's go.
Jason Harwood:All right. We're going to go by position group.
Jacob Litton:I'm interested to see if it's different or how different it is.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:there's, you know, uh, only a handful of spots that are really marks, so,
Jason Harwood:Yeah. I can't wait till you, you know, get on me about my picks. So that'll be fun. This is what I've been looking forward to all day. A little banter. So, um, how about I'm going to let you be the brave one. You go first on quarterbacks. You keep in two or three.
Jacob Litton:Uh, so on my quarterback list, I have Jared Goff, Hendon Hooker, and Nate Sudfeld. I picked, uh, all three to make the team. How about you?
Jason Harwood:I didn't, I left Nate off.
Jacob Litton:Okay, first one already.
Jason Harwood:so my reasoning on leaving him off is that this is kind of a roster gymnastics type move. I, even Nate Seinfeld may still end up being the number two quarterback on the roster, but, um, you know, with the Roderick Martin injury, iffy injury, I felt like we might keep one of those positions, an extra player at one of those positions. And then just knowing that Nate's probably going to be available. So You know, they might end up cutting someone else later on and then activating Nate Sotfeld if they want to be number two. So that's, that's kind of the main reason why I did that. Um, although, in my head, just watching those games, I really feel like Hendon's pretty close to supplanting Nate Sotfeld anyways and being able to take over and be able to win some games. I just think that his legs,
Jacob Litton:not sold that he's, you know, as close there yet,
Jason Harwood:I don't know, his legs, and then the fact that he was able to keep his composure and still go through his progressions and not try to rush out to being sacked, three plays in a row. He went right up there and then he was, once, the talent level on the field evened out, then he was able to, you know, do his thing and he looked much, much better in that position. That's kind of why I chose that way and just gave me an extra, you know, The roster spot for later on,
Jacob Litton:which is something to think about.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I
Jacob Litton:is a good, good way to think because of the injuries, the other things we have to play around. Um, we're not as concerned with a team stealing Nate Sudfeld from us,
Jason Harwood:mean, it still is a slight gamble. I mean, Nate could, you know, not be on board and he could try to go sign on someone else's practice squad. I don't think that there's teams, especially after what he looked like in the first two weeks, that are clamoring to have Nate Sutfeld on, on their team. So I think it's a fairly safe bet, but that's, that was my reasoning, just solely on freeing up a roster spot. But before week one, we could have Nate Sutfeld on the active roster and, you know, And Hanna and Hooker too. So
Jacob Litton:Question for you here though, uh, in this scenario, so you've got Jess Goff and Hooker being on the roster for the
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:Do you have from being on the practice squad or do you just have them letting him walk?
Jason Harwood:I was on a message board earlier today. Um, talking with someone about this, the person questioned me and asked if you could have two quarterbacks on your practice squad. And I said, yes, you could do that. But then you're taking away, you know, a spot from someone else. I don't know. I don't, I mean. Do I think Fromm has a higher upside than Nate Sudfeld on the football field? Yes. But Nate Sudfeld is probably with the Lions for another reason, especially if he's not on the practice squad. It's, you know, doing the stuff that he does to help Jared golf out. Looking ahead at his opponents, scouting them, you know, getting Jared ready for another game. You know, I I think that his value is different than, you know, than Jake Fromm. I'm not saying Jake Fromm couldn't develop into that role, I don't really know. Um, but I think Nate's been with our team for two years and he's, you know, Jared's comfortable with him. So I think that, that's his role and that's probably why he's still on the team.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, no, it's, it's hard to justify when with limited practice squad spots, it's hard to justify keeping a fourth quarterback on that. You know, you're not going to have to count on in a pinch, really.
Jason Harwood:Yeah,
Jacob Litton:Versus some of these other deeper position groups. You got the offensive line, some of the defensive backs and stuff, the defensive line. Those are guys that you need in the building. You need that practice squad because there's a decent chance they're going to have to play. You keep from on the practice squad. I mean, what are the odds he actually ever sees the field?
Jason Harwood:yeah, exactly. And if Fromm gets to the field, um, you got bigger problems than, than that. Say, one of the quarterbacks gets hurt and there's an open spot, I I think the Lions would probably be open to having Fromm back. Dan Campbell talked pretty positively in his press conference about him. And they did give him a shot to shine so he must have done something. If he didn't do his job correctly, the Lions wouldn't have cared enough to give him, you know, the fourth quarter in that last preseason game. Because they certainly didn't have to do that.
Jacob Litton:right. Let's, let's move on to the next one.
Jason Harwood:All right, so running backs. You went first in the last one I'll go here. I have us keeping four and I'm betting that you and I match on this one. There's But maybe not David Montgomery, Jameer Gibbs, Craig Reynolds and Sione Vaki are the four that I have You keeping those four you keeping someone else too
Jacob Litton:I have the same four. I think that that was, this was a pretty easy position group to pick through here. Just because, I mean, I think it's a solid group outside of, you know, Zahneman night had a decent preseason for us. Jamar Jefferson's showed some flashes. Uh, not enough really to, you know, steal a roster spot from one of these other guys. I, I feel pretty good about these are the four that are going to be there. I think it's more interesting to figure out, you know, practice squad purposes. Do we keep one of those other running bags?
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I think for sure if they pass through waivers or they don't sign with another team's practice squad, I think you're going to see Zanvon Knight and Jamar Jefferson
Jacob Litton:You think both on the practice squad.
Jason Harwood:I don't know. I mean, I could see them both being there. It just depends on, you know, running backs get injured.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, right, right, You know, 12 spots. Do you keep two running backs?
Jason Harwood:Out of the, out of who's left, I think Zonovan Knight will probably be the next one on there. He's the closest to like, David Montgomery, so if David Montgomery got injured, he's the closest, you know, running between the tackles guy. You know, after Craig, obviously, but, you know, of the three guys that were left there, that's probably who I would keep, um, or I would, I would keep there. And then, you know, if Jameer got hurt, you know, I guess Jamar would be closer, but Vaki would be able to take some passes too, so. I. I would think Zanvin Knight would be the next one, you know, to make the practice squad if he passes through waivers.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, valid.
Jason Harwood:I think that's pretty cut and dry and I think most people that are doing this exercise are gonna just have that same four. The next one I could see some, you know, differences. So curious of what you did with wide receiver How many you got on there? So you, you tell me, go ahead. I'm gonna let you lead off.
Jacob Litton:All right, so I have Amanrah St. Brown, Jamison Williams, Khalif Raymond, Those are the easy ones, right? There's no surprises there, we already know about them. And then I, I only have us keeping 4 receivers, and that 4th receiver I have, Isaiah Williams.
Jason Harwood:I'm right with you. And that's exactly how I have it. So I think,
Jacob Litton:Okay.
Jason Harwood:I, you know, I had before yesterday's game. I had, I had mine picked and DBJ was on my list. Um, I think we just talked on, you know, not last, not. The one that we did with the game recap at the previous one, I thought DPJ was going to be in line for that, but he did three targets zero for zero just looks like he's not involved. I don't know what's what's going on, so I, it's kind of a shame, but yeah, and I think Isaiah Williams kind of just played himself on this team because I think it's getting to be more and more obvious. He's probably not going to make it through waivers, um, if he, if we let him go, so I think that they're going to end up keeping him, we're going to need more than four wide receivers, so we're going to have to, to get someone else. So are you of the mindset like I am that, you know, we're going to be looking through the waiver wire or trading for another wide receiver?
Jacob Litton:Absolutely. You have to have another one. We have to have, you know, that's what they're wanting, is a big receiver. You know, you gotta see what's out there, and then, you know, if you don't It's tough to say if there's nothing out there, we don't know exactly what we have. We know what we have in DPJ and fountain. Do we keep one of them on the practice squad? I just don't feel like it's worth it. I think we've seen enough and I think they missed their chance, I mean, you know, then we got to roll the dice on somebody else and there, you know, there's not going to be any shortage of receivers. There's going to be some big receivers that are available. And, you know, bring them in, give them a fair shot and see what they have. He, you gotta have somebody else in here though, whether they actually make the active roster right away. I mean, they're going to be on the practice squad likely to begin with, but depending on, you know, there's some veterans sitting there waiting for cut down days. we bring one of those guys in there, who knows, there, there definitely will be another receiver coming.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, the only one that could make it out of this group, I guess, is Maurice Alexander, I could see them pushing him through, I think Caden Davis might make it to the practice squad. They might put Darius on there just so that there's a familiar, familiarity, alright, I think we're gonna differ on this list, uh, tight ends, and, uh, I'll lead off on this. I have us keeping four on this list, um, whether we s stay this way or not, but I think right now we're gonna keep four. We got Sam, Laporta, Brockwright, uh, Shane Zylstra, and Parker Hesse. I think that we're gonna keep those four. Parker Hesse is good. Basically going to play our fullbacks, probably going to be in goal line sets. Um, I think Shane Zylstra right now is more in line to play the X than any of our X wide receivers. He's a bigger body, played wide receiver in college. Um, he can, he can receive. So I think, you know, if we. Can't find that X that Shane might be able to come in on some of those plays where you want a bigger wide receiver out There and of course you got Sam and Brock, you know, those are obviously one and two. There's no question about that What do you have for yours? Yeah,
Jacob Litton:tight ends. So I have Laporta, Brockwright, Shane Zylstra. Um, know you're, you were kind of high on Parker Hessey about the possibility of keeping him just because of his You know, full back potential. I do think that James Mitchell based on the last game, especially really, you know, played himself out of a job because I feel like he was kind of above Parker Hessey up until this last game. Um, it's an interesting take. I don't know. I think the park has, he's definitely somebody good. to keep on the practice squad and see him develop a little more and see what we have, but right now I have three tight ends and I'm using that extra position elsewhere.
Jason Harwood:well my feeling is say we go and get another wide receiver Parker has has he is probably my first one out that You know, you're gonna probably cut him to get another wide receiver if someone comes open on the waiver wire But for right now that's That's how I have it lined up and we'll see how it goes. But, Malcolm's been injured. If he's going to be your fullback, you know, and they might want to see how he does when he comes back and then that might make Parker, you know, a little more expendable when you have, you know, Malcolm, if you're going to play him at fullback, if you decide to do, if the Lions decide to do that.
Jacob Litton:The thing about Parker is I don't even, I mean, I don't have it in front of me, but how many snaps did he actually get in at fullback during the preseason? Do you know, do you have that information?
Jason Harwood:I, and I don't, but the thing is that like in practice, he was number one and number two, and the, the Lions always, kept the fullback, you know, Jasik Abindov was always the fullback. He's no longer on the team. I just think they'd like to have someone that can play that position for like goal line or, you know, third and fourth and short plays, which, you know, the Lions will like to go on those type of plays. So I, I, they like to have someone that can do that position. However, Sam could play it, Brock could play it, and Malcolm Rodriguez could play it. It just depends on whether they want to put them in those positions or not.
Jacob Litton:right. It looks like Parker, uh, I don't have the fullback stats, but he caught one pass rate yards in the preseason.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:didn't see a lot. I mean, maybe because of how they've been utilizing their practice and everything. And the fact that we don't have a true fullback. I also think if that's your plan, no, one's going to steal Parker Hesse from us to keep him on the practice squad and see how that turns out.
Jason Harwood:And that's very true, and that's why I think he's my first one out if, you know, if we get another wide receiver, so. But that's, you know, why I have it, but we'll see who's right on Tuesday. I, ha, it's, your guess is as good as mine on that, but that's just the way I feel it's gonna be right now, so. How many offensive linemen do you have them keeping?
Jacob Litton:So, I put on here, based on my roster build, Christian Mahogany would be on the NFI list starting this season. He's not going to be taking up a roster spot. So I have nine total offensive linemen.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, that's what I have too. And I have the same thing with Mahogany and the NFI, the non football injury list. Um, he hasn't even practiced yet.
Jacob Litton:nine?
Jason Harwood:I don't know. I'm sure we have the same starting five.
Jacob Litton:Oh yeah, you better.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, all right, so you I'll let you go through your your nine and we'll see where see if we're the same or differ
Jacob Litton:Okay, well the first five are easy, obviously. Pene Sewell, Taylor Decker, Frank Ragnow, Graham Glasgow, Kevin Ziegler. Those are the easy ones, obviously. After that, I have Colby Soaresdahl. Dan Skipper, Giovanni Manu, and then my last guy in, sneaking in on the offensive line is gonna be, I don't know how you say his name, Ilosika?
Jason Harwood:Oh, Awosika, Kyoto, Awosika.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, yep, I have
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Yep. That's my exact my exact nine Iguacun was my One that I wanted to keep, but I think they're going to try to put him on the, you know, they'll try to slide him on the practice squad. Um, but yeah, those are the nine. I went with Awosika because, you know, he's had some starts last year, last in the NFC championship game. I just think they're going to want to experience on the line with, you know, especially Manu taking up a roster spot, probably not going to play very much. Um, Colby. Didn't look necessarily great yesterday against the ones, but, um, once the twos came in, he looked really good. So I think he's kind of coming into his own. I think he's still got some growth. They kind of bounce around between guard and tackle. Uh, it looks like they primarily have him on tackle this year. So we'll see how he develops. Um, you know, he'll need another year. He came from a small school, so it's going to take him a little bit. He was forced into action last year. When there was an injury. So hopefully we don't have to deal with that, but you know, if we do see if he's more prepared, but you know, he's. You know, this is the nine that we're going to go with. I, like I said, Iguacan is the next one that I, you know, would have liked to kept, but I think we'll try to get them on the practice squad,
Jacob Litton:I agree, I have him just missing the cut there, and making it on the practice squad.
Jason Harwood:Obviously it's starting five, feel very comfortable with them. Um, especially, you know, B'nai was have gave us a little scare earlier in the week thinking that he might be, you know, he might have had a foot injury, but it looks like, you know, ankle injury. It looks like he just rolled it. So, you know, give him two weeks. I think he's going to be hopefully, you know, that's rested and he's ready to play against, uh, the Rams. So, yep. Um, anybody else on that list that you were struggling with at all, but besides a Gwakun?
Jacob Litton:No, just looking back through the list again, I mean, there, I don't think we really saw enough out of any of the other guys that weren't keeping them.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I think Michael Neese and Duke Clemens are probably gonna have a shot at being on the practice squad. Um, I think that they may.
Jacob Litton:I don't know about Nice. I don't know. I mean, they, I think they shifted him around a lot, right? We're trying out pretty
Jason Harwood:Well,
Jacob Litton:spot on the liner,
Jason Harwood:they had him, they had him at guard and then Iguacun was You know, the center from for Kansas City, and then they kind of flip flopped on that last week, um, before the Pittsburgh just to see if they had some versatility to go in, in both ways. So, I think Iwakun showed a little bit better, um, being a center. I think that's where they played him yesterday. They practice them at guard during the week. Um, and I think he was a little bit better than nice,
Jacob Litton:so out of all the offensive roster spots, it looks like I have two more players than you do. So you've got two extra roster spots to use on your defense coming up here.
Jason Harwood:Yep. Yeah, we'll, we'll see where I put'em. I had wanted to keep two long snaps.
Jacob Litton:I bet you did.
Jason Harwood:So let's go to interior defensive line next. Um, I have us keeping six players in this. I have Aleem, McNeil, Olive Anzarique, um, Makai Wingo, Kyle Petko, DJ Reader, and Broderick Martin for my interior defensive line. What, what do you have?
Jacob Litton:I actually have the same exact six on my interior line.
Jason Harwood:All right. Yeah, I think Wingo is probably going to be, you know, the one way down on the roster. He's young. I think, you know, they're probably going to want him. Bulk him up a little bit. Um, you know, he's got a good pass rush, but he's, he's going to probably be a liability in the run game. Uh, there's multiple times in the preseason where they just kind of pushed him out of the way. Um,
Jacob Litton:yep.
Jason Harwood:that's not gonna, not gonna fly with, uh, Aaron Glenn's defense and Dan Campbell, they want to stop the run primarily. So you gotta be a, if you're going to play interior, you better be able to, you know, stop the run first and then get to the passer next.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, agreed. Um, and also, with the whole, you know, we're keeping DJ, he's not on the PUP list, but we're going to need an extra body, we're going to need an extra person to take some of those reps, and, I mean, potentially, you know, be active and play in the game, so. That's why I think it's safe to have Wingo on there. Project Martin also has an injury, we're not sure about that, correct? Um, so, I'm comfortable with the six that we have on there.
Jason Harwood:Eventually, when DJ Reader gets back, is Kyle Pecco, you know, if we have some injuries, is he going to be pushed off the roster? You know, obviously it's going to just depend on how he plays and how he's doing at the time. But I think he's pretty safe for the roster right now. He didn't play all preseason for a reason. But now that DJ Reader's coming back, you know, his, it's a little more shaky crown, but I think that he's going to start out the season on the team for sure.
Jacob Litton:So, if these six are the guys, let's say DJ's inactive week one, what, who are your starters? Who are your two that are out there first?
Jason Harwood:Well, probably a Liam and Levi are going to start out, I would imagine, which is crazy that Levi's pushed himself into the starting, you know, starting position. It's, you know, we were, you know, wondering if he was going to even make the team, you know, in the summer and minicamp and then. He's, you know, he started to look good and you hear things, but it's hard to, you know, mini camp where there's no contact. It's hard to know, how a defensive, we were just happy he was out there practicing and he wasn't injured. Right. I mean, we were just like, Oh, Levi's out there, but now, you know, when contact started and he was still showing out and then they goes in New York and he's. You know, showing out there, and then, you know, they don't play him at all in any of the preseason games. So I, you know, it's pretty well set that, you know, he's gonna be out there. It's crazy. It's could end up being amazing for the line if he ends up, you know, becoming the player that we always wished he was.
Jacob Litton:So
Jason Harwood:All right. Yep.
Jacob Litton:marks. This, this one is the question mark one though, the defensive end, the edge rushers. real quick, so, how many did you keep?
Jason Harwood:So I only have four edge rushers, um, on mine, and
Jacob Litton:so, I have five.
Jason Harwood:okay,
Jacob Litton:uh, my edge rushers, I have Aiden Hutchinson, Marcus Davenport, Josh Pascal, uh, Isaac Uqua, and James Houston. So, I have Houston making the roster.
Jason Harwood:I was not confident in Houston making the roster. So I have, you know, I have the four you met, the first four you mentioned outside of James Houston. So I have Davenport, Pascal, Hutchinson, and Nuku. Um, I, Dan Campbell did not sound confident yesterday when he talked after, um, or yeah, Saturday after the game. He did not sound confident at all. Um, About Houston making the team. It's crazy. I don't know, but I just don't, I think he's more of a trade candidate for me that he, you know, I don't think they'll just cut him, but I think that he might get traded for a late round pick or, you know, for a team that lines up with a wide receiver or something like that. I could see us trading for that.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, when I was making my 53, he was the very last person that I put in there. He's a true 50, 50 on the fence, you know, what he's shown in the past versus what he's done so far. I mean, football focus had him graded as the highest rated defender for the lions in this last preseason game.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:you take that for what it's worth, but I mean, he did have a sack. He did actually, you know, he wasn't invisible this time. He did show up. So
Jason Harwood:Right.
Jacob Litton:it's tough. Obviously I'm not, you know, I a hundred percent believe that there's a good chance that he's not there. But I think 50 50 that he may make the team as well.
Jason Harwood:I think 50 50 is right on, you know, it's, it is so close for me about whether he's going to be on there or not. It seems crazy to me that someone with his skill that you're going to However, if the injuries that he's had have slowed him down and he's not able to get as much pass rush, then, you know, he's not as valuable because a guy like is bigger, can do the power rush and he's better against the run. So, I mean, he's more versatile end of what downs you could put him on. Whereas Houston, I think you're primarily going to have them either. And, you know, Third and long or second and very long where you know that they're not going to run and you don't need to worry about it. Um, I don't know. I mean, he's definitely got trade value. So I think that the lines decide to not keep them. I think they'll be able to get someone. It's not going to be high, you know, you're not going to be getting them for a third or fourth round or it's, you know, six or seventh, um, you know, probably conditional six or, you know, a seventh, or we could trade them for another player.
Jacob Litton:him and a 7th and trade him for a 5 or something like that, like there's potential out there. I think the thing about Dan Campbell and, you know, the, I guess the frustration is that you know what he can do and what's expected of him and what we were hoping for. So it's frustrating that, you know, it hasn't happened. It's got to be frustrating for them to, you know, have high hopes that he's going to be picking up the same position and being able to branch out and then found out that he really is not going to be able to do that. So now if he does stay on the team, he is just going to be. A situational pass rusher, you know, which, which is still valuable though. So it's just really, really up in the air.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, no, it's, they didn't do James Houston any favors by, you know, Doing all the Sam stuff. He could have been working on his, you know, developing other pass rush moves and stuff like that. But I can understand what the Lions wanted. The Lions had a dynamic player that could rush the passer. If we could keep him on the field more, then he's a real, uh, more valuable player. He, you know, wasn't gonna fit in the Lions plans that way. So now he's back to being just an edge rusher. But you're right. There's a tremendous value in rushing the passer, especially someone that can do it as well as him. It just His other abilities about stopping the rudge, keeping an edge, you know, not being able to drop back in coverage. Those are what's going to limit him, what downs he can be on the field. Was there
Jacob Litton:at the same time, you know, you think of a third and 12 situation, you've got eight nuts and DJ reader, Eileen McNeil and James Houston on that line rushing your quarterback. dangerous. I mean, I like the idea of that, but
Jason Harwood:or you got Levi in there? I mean, Levi's got a quick first step. He'd probably be on there more pass rush downs. I,
Jacob Litton:right. Pascal is going to just
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:whoever's in front of him back.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got DJ in there, you got to double team them, but you know, it'll be interesting to see how they do the different, you know, who's in on what packages, because we haven't seen any of that. You know, we see just very basic stuff. Really there's only one other one is Mitchell Aguday. Are you
Jacob Litton:right. He was one of the people I have that just missed that cut.
Jason Harwood:yeah.
Jacob Litton:that's probably I think if Houston doesn't make it, then he will. I still think we need five
Jason Harwood:Yeah
Jacob Litton:ends, five edge rushers.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, John Kaminsky gonna start out season on the IR. But he might be eligible to come back at the end of the You know, if he was there, then it'd be really, you know, he definitely would be on there and that would probably be your fifth. Um, I think Mitchell's got value. You're hoping that he can make it to the practice squad if, you know, if he can skirt through waivers like that. So we'll, we'll see. Um, I'm really, the James Huston thing is probably the most intriguing. That and the quarterback for me are the two, like, what are they gonna do on here? A lot of the other ones are not as important to me, but, uh. Next, I have a linebacker group. I have six for linebackers. I'm assuming that you have six as well. So, uh, Derek Barnes, as far as linebackers, we got Derek Barnes, Anzalone. Uh, Germ, Jalen Reeves Maven, Malcolm Rodriguez, Jack Campbell, and Ben Neiman. And I'm assuming those are the same ones that you've kept. That
Jacob Litton:I don't think there's really any, any question marks even here. Especially after Ben Neiman, you know, played really well in the preseason and then he didn't play in the last game. I think that's, you know, that secured that.
Jason Harwood:was it. When he didn't play. I was like, Oh, Ben's on. Ben is, cause I don't know if he was on my roster before that. And I was like, Oh, he didn't play. Well, that's the sign that he's
Jacob Litton:Yeah,
Jason Harwood:going to be on the, on the team. So he played himself enough to be on the team. So not really any surprises in this list. Um, you know, we, we already, we know what Alex brings to the table. Hopefully Malcolm comes back. I'm excited to see how Jack does as, you know, the middle linebacker. And then the fact Derrick Barron's playing in the Sam, you know, he really started to come into his own last year. You know, obviously had that awesome interception and, you know, versus Tampa Bay. So I,
Jacob Litton:interception, you might
Jason Harwood:it might, you might say some might say more than others, but maybe.
Jacob Litton:Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.
Jason Harwood:He also had an iconic, uh, miss safety on Dak Proscott. So, you know, he's had his ups and downs but I am I'm excited to see Derek Barnes out of all this I'm him and Jack Campbell are the two that I'm most excited to see.
Jacob Litton:Definitely. Um. Yeah, there's no questions about the six that we're keeping. I do think it'll be interesting as the season goes on to see, I guess it kind of depends on Jack Campbell's development and to see if Derek Barnes takes another leap forward. But while looking at our roster and looking at the position groups, I think the linebackers probably look like they may be the weak link or depending on how they start playing, then, you know, then we don't have any.
Jason Harwood:Yeah
Jacob Litton:now, though, I think that that's the, I guess you would say the weakest position that we have, and it's not all that weak,
Jason Harwood:No, no, not that they got Alex in his primary position. He played he had a pretty good He had a really good season last year until he got banged up a little bit and they slowed down But he's still I like him playing. Oh, you know in the position. He's at he's got a little more Freedom and he played really well last year and then Jack, Aaron Glenn said that his, coverage of the skills have improved and, you know, we had that game in the very week one last year, he had that block pass versus Kansas City and you thought, Oh, this is what we're going to have kind of really didn't see it the rest of the year. If we could see more of that, him getting disrupting the passing game, that's just going to, you know, cause I, no problem that Jack's going to be in there stopping the run game. It's just a matter of, he can, you know, use his athletic ability. In coverage that was gonna come just complete his game. So I, I, you know, and Jalen Rees Maven for, you know, backup linebacker, special teams player, he plays really good. Linebacker when he's in there. I'm not it's not a liability. I'm I feel very comfortable with him playing out there. Very smart player
Jacob Litton:Yes. You don't have to question any of these guys football instincts or their work ethic. They're not taking plays off and they definitely, they attack the ball, they know how to get there.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I I'm happy with this group. It's you know, fairly consistent with last year I mean really Ben Neiman's the only one that we've added to the you know to the group. We lost Pittman To free agency. So Ben Neiman's kind of just moved in but I'm very comfortable with this linebacking group. Is it You know, number one linebacking group in the league. No, but it's very reliable. You know what you're getting. So I'm happy with it. Very smart players.
Jacob Litton:Right.
Jason Harwood:All right. What you got for cornerback.
Jacob Litton:All right. Cornerbacks, you know, it's another one that I feel pretty good about. I have us keeping six. So I have Carlton Davis, Terry on Arnold and it's rake straw. I make Robertson. Khalil Dorsey, Kindleville door.
Jason Harwood:That's correct. That's how I got. So I kept every safety. So that's why I have more, but,
Jacob Litton:right, right.
Jason Harwood:but no, I I'm pretty deep group for cornerback. I'm, I'm pretty happy with this group.
Jacob Litton:Yeah, I mean, we got some experience guys. We also have some really, really high end draft picks. The rookies that we have seem to be the real deal based on what we've seen so far. So I definitely think, you know, where we were kind of weaker in cornerback last year, we definitely have had an upgrade. And I don't think the really the only other one that you could make a case for that's on the roster right now would be Gilmore and he just really, I mean, he was getting a beat in practice. He was getting beat in the preseason games. He also wasn't tackling all that well when he was allowing the catches. just really didn't have a really good showing. So I don't think that there's any chance. I mean, the 6 that we have, we both agreed on it. And I think that's kind of. A done deal like that's how it's just going to be
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I agree. There's really no, it's just a matter of. How are we going to disperse these guys and what, you know, what order they're going to be in. Um, you know, we're going to start out with Terry on and Carlton as our ones and twos. It just matters where, and this is probably going to be our number three. Um, and a mix, probably gonna be our nickel. And then just, we, You know, Ennis may back up Amik at Nickel, he might also have Branch playing out there, uh, you know, and then you got Dorsey and Vildor and I, you know, Dorsey is a really good special teams player, so, you know, he's, that's going to add to the reason why he's on this team, but he actually, you know, Played pretty well corner too. So I'm much deeper room this year. So hopefully, we see results on the field that match that. Uh, I know for a fact that, um, they're going to be able to help out in the running game. All those guys are going to be. Massively involved in stopping the run, so I'm not worried about that at all,
Jacob Litton:for sure be interesting though, you know, do you think with the corners that we have now are we going to just kind of leave, you know, Carlton, you man, the left side, Terry on your on the right side, you know, a meek you're following in the slot if we have a, you know, a big nickel package with NS out there as well or we get branch out there. Do you think we're going to do? You know, just for instance, we play Minnesota two games a year. Do you think we're going to have Carlton or Terry on just shadowing Justin Jefferson the whole game? Or do you think we're going to try to get them to stick to one side of the field and rotate in and out and do it like that?
Jason Harwood:That's an interesting question. I don't have a read on that yet. I mean, we haven't, we haven't seen those starters out there yet. Um, you know, we saw Terry in battle with Amun Ra many times in training camp. Carlton was hurt a lot of times that we were out there, so I didn't really get to see much of him. Carlton wants to be your number one, so I think if he has it up to him, he's going to be traveling with whoever the number one ride receiver is. I think that's the way he's going to want it, but whether Aaron Glenn wants it that way, I don't know. I think Aaron Glenn's going to kind of play all over the place. Do you, what do you think?
Jacob Litton:I kind of hope that they leave them on each side of the field and let the receiver move around to them because we have some stronger corners than what we've had in the past, know, it wasn't working having cam Sutton follow Justin Jefferson around. you know, trying to talk trash to him and giving up 200 yards, but with Carlton and Tarion, they're both better corners than what Cam Sutton was. So, I mean, you hope that it plays out that way if you decide to have them shadow a number one receiver. But I think leaving them on one side of the field kind of helps, uh, maybe disguise our coverage a little bit better. Maybe it helped disguise which way the Blitzes are coming from. And, uh, yeah. I think it'll help overall if they didn't have to shadow around the number one guy. But then, you know, you also have situations where, you know, if we're not moving around, if we're not shadowing, maybe they start lining Justin Jefferson up in the slot over Amika Robertson and, you know, they're trying to do different things. So, probably take it game by game. But I'm I'm intrigued by the cornerback group that we have now. I feel good about it, though.
Jason Harwood:Well, that's the thing I like about having Amika in the nickel. He can play outside corner too. So, you know, if they do try to put, you know, Justin in the slot or whatever, I think Amit can handle it too. And that's, I like his versatility inside outside. Um, so, and it gives, you know, obviously it gives, um, Aaron Glenn a lot more versatility about how he's going to line up his, his guys. I think if Carlton Davis has his thoughts, he's going to want to travel with the number one, you know, wide receiver all over the field.
Jacob Litton:though. I mean
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Terrian's a rookie and I think he'll defer, you know, this year. He seems. To be like that, but in his head, yes, I think that,
Jacob Litton:Well, we'll see how well If that's the plan, we'll see how well Carlton does doing that.
Jason Harwood:Yep. Yeah. Well, I mean, man to man, he's very good. I, I think, you know, we might struggle a little bit in zone. So I think you're going to see a ton of man to man with what we have. A lot more communication in zone about passing things off and we have young guys back there. So I think that, you know, you're going to have just more man to man for, for that reason alone. Alright, safety group, so, I have five, you have four, I'm betting that my difference is I have CJ Moore and you don't,
Jacob Litton:That's exactly right.
Jason Harwood:yep, so I get,
Jacob Litton:Moore off.
Jason Harwood:yep. Uh, we got Iffy, Kirby Joseph, Brian Branch, CJ, I have CJ Moore, and then Brandon Joseph. So, the Iffy injury leads me to why we might need an extra, have an extra safety on there. If, if I have to say my first to go, um, say Iffy ends up being alright, CJ Moore is probably my first to go. I think they're going to keep Brandon Joseph over CJ Moore.
Jacob Litton:Yeah. He was in, like, my list of players that, were just, just missed out on it. Yeah, we talked about that before. Brandon Joseph showed more value from the actual safety position outside of only special teams, whereas that's kind of CJ Moore's, you know, that's how he's making the roster is based on how valuable he is on special teams.
Jason Harwood:right? And, uh, also from what I've read is Brandon Joseph is more of your center field type safety. So, you know, say Kirby got injured, he could more step into that spot more than what if he or Brian Branch could step into. So he gives you kind of some redundancy there. Um, Brandon Joseph, Had a rough, he had some ups and downs in the preseason, but he also had multiple interceptions he made plays and it kept showing up on the practice report So that's why I think that he's gonna you know I think Brandon Joseph will make the team if he's injury makes me wonder if they're gonna keep CJ more and this is kind of The roster gymnastics I was talking about why? I think that they might cut Nate Suffield. It gives them a little bit of time, you know, to evaluate these injuries and then know if they're going to need, you know, to keep this position because I think the fact that Nate is probably going to just pass through waivers without any worries that you're going to be able to just pick him up and then you can cut someone like CJ Moore if you need to.
Jacob Litton:Definitely.
Jason Harwood:Lawrence Strickland. I'm hoping that he can make to the practice squad. Um, I think he showed some potential. He just has a lot of learning to do. He was making plays, especially coming up in the run game. I saw him many times making tackles coming up. I think that he's got potential, but I also don't think he's, we're going to risk losing him to waivers at all. He'll probably easily make it to the practice squad.
Jacob Litton:Somebody that showed out in practice and kind of, made the most out of his opportunity, but just not quite enough to actually crack the roster.
Jason Harwood:Right.
Jacob Litton:game and he kind of fell outside of that. Um, speaking of numbers game though, it's just what I was going to say is you really are at a toss up with Brandon Joseph, CJ Moore, both, you know, depending on, like you said, those other positions, if we're cutting somebody from elsewhere, if he's hurt, then we kind of, we have to keep another one. So, I mean, it is interesting. I think obviously the top three are the top three and there was never any doubt about that. So,
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Just hopefully if he's not, you know, something, we got to put him on the IR or something like that and bring it back.
Jacob Litton:right.
Jason Harwood:And our special teams, I'm assuming, uh, so there's probably You know, some, I've noticed that some people have them keeping Hogan, Hatton, over Scott Daly. I have Scott Daly as our long snapper, Jake Bates, and then Jack Fox. Is that what you have?
Jacob Litton:Yeah. I had them
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:daily.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob Litton:just, I don't know what the reason would be for even trying to make a move there. If you have the consistency already with your long snapper, I mean,
Jason Harwood:I think some people's argument is that Hogan, you know, he can play linebacker, he's just more athletic, and that's kind of a freak talent for a long snapper, but, you're only going to need that on You know, a very long field goal try that, you know, that would be returned is when you would need an athletic long staffer to come down on the coverage team or all the punts. Um, the Lions aren't going to punt this year because we go for it on all fourth downs and our offense is so good, so we don't have to worry about that, right?
Jacob Litton:And if we do punt it, it goes 70 yards. We don't have to worry about them returning.
Jason Harwood:Exactly. These are all things that we think about, right? So I, I think. You know, it's one of those things, if it's, you know, if it's not broke, why fix it? Scott Daly, we know that he can do presser situations. We don't hear about bad snaps at all. Last year, the, the problem with the, any problem with the kicking game was not due to snaps. It was, you know, if anything, it was with our, our kicker. So, you know, I, why try to, why try to fix that?
Jacob Litton:I don't understand the argument of, you know, having value elsewhere, you know, on the return. I mean, you know, you don't, you don't keep the punter because he can tackle guys that come down there. That's not what he's there for.
Jason Harwood:Right, exactly. Keep two. Well, this punter's a very good tackler. Well, if he's, if you're having to rely on your punter for tackling, then you have other problems with your coverage team.
Jacob Litton:We could just let Rodrigo punt then. Right.
Jason Harwood:yeah, he does everything else with the team, you know, I'm going to see him out at tight end soon too. But that's kind of how we got it lined up. It'll be interesting. I am of the, Feeling that how that, uh, what they announced is the 53 man roster on Tuesday isn't necessarily how it's going to be in week one. Um, I have a feeling there's going to be some, some movement. Uh, I'm, I was expecting more people to be cut today. Um, then then one, you know, for the lions, I thought, you know, we decided to record this at night just in case there was stuff that happened, the DJ reader thing happened. So that was nice that we were able to talk on that. But I was expecting some early cuts to happen, um, but no, maybe, probably starting tomorrow then I would expect, you know, us to start seeing some names, probably the bottom of the, you know, like your Jalen Calhoun's, your Tom Kennedy's, you'll probably start seeing those released,
Jacob Litton:The people that just got there like a week or so ago. I
Jason Harwood:yeah.
Jacob Litton:Right. you don't hold those all till Tuesday. I mean, they knew what it was when they got here,
Jason Harwood:yeah, we're not going to find out about James Houston until, you know, it's officially released or we trade them before, you know, four o'clock on Tuesday. So
Jacob Litton:right?
Jason Harwood:it was a fun exercise. Had you ever done anything like this before, um, putting together a 53?
Jacob Litton:mean, I obviously just being a fan, I have people that I hope make the team and people I don't, you know,
Jason Harwood:Mm hmm.
Jacob Litton:but never to lay it all out like a 53 like this and have to in depth and really think about it.
Jason Harwood:Yep. Yeah. I think it's kind of interesting because there was like somewhere you're just like, This group, you know, like linebackers, we just knew the six, you know, that was going to take, there was just, there wasn't as many, uh, open roster spots. And I imagine in years past, it was more wide open, you know, you didn't know, I mean, sometimes we didn't know who our starters were going to be out of the, out of a group. You know, just cause, you know, we are, our lineup was so weak. Um, whereas now, you know, the starters are pretty well established and it's, we're just, you know, picking on secondary guys. A couple of the injuries like the project Martin and if he made it interesting about, what, contingency plans about keeping that. And then the whole DJ reader coming off the pup list, which, you know, you. Could have had him on your pop list and then that would give you an extra roster spot So knowing that a hat ahead of time just helped me not solidify that I based on Dan Campbell's press conference earlier in the week He kind of alluded to that DJ reader might be available So I kind of figured he might be coming off the pop list, but the fact that he passed is you know Physical today was good, you know, it wasn't a matter of hey, we want to take you out to Publis But then he couldn't pass the physical because he wasn't in enough shape. But apparently he was he's ready to go.
Jacob Litton:right. Great news.
Jason Harwood:Yes. Awesome news So, um, this is fun. We'll see how it goes on Tuesday. So got a couple, you know differences We'll see who gets to you know Be the king here. We'll see, or if it's a mix, you know, I was right here, you were wrong there, but we're pretty, for the most part, we have pretty much the same, same list. So
Jacob Litton:I think most people making these lists for the lions probably have the same except for, you know, there's only a handful, you know, kind of what we said before, there was only maybe five or six spots up for grabs. And then after, you know, Well, even based on who played in the preseason game, then that kind of narrowed down to like two or three outside of injuries. So there's only so many pieces of the puzzle that weren't already set. So
Jason Harwood:yeah. One guy we didn't mention is Matthew Betts, the CFL player from the edge. I hope that he makes it to the practice squad. I don't still think he's kind of NFL ready yet, but I'm hoping that he can make it to the practice squad and be able to provide us, injury relief later on and use his pass rushing skills. So I, I kind of,
Jacob Litton:list a couple of practice squad players, just in case we had talked about that. He was on there, uh, Parker Hesse. I have practice squad,
Jason Harwood:mm hmm.
Jacob Litton:Gwaklin, uh, Lauren Strickland and Ty Summer is the linebacker. Those are guys I hope to see on the practice squad.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I think those are all good takes on that. Um, like I said, I hope Zonovan can, Zonovan Knight can make it over there. Um, I fully expect like Caden Davis or I, even I think Doris Fountain might make it on the practice squad too. Um, and, but, you know, Doris might be there just long enough until we get someone else that, you know, that we would come in. Um, you know, that might be a position that he might not be on there very long. All right, well, we'll release this on Monday morning. We'll see how wrong we are on Tuesday at four o'clock, or maybe even earlier. We'll, you know, if one of our guys gets cut, you know, between now and then, uh,
Jacob Litton:Jason's used to being wrong about stuff.
Jason Harwood:I know. We work together the next two days, so as we, uh, Twitter unloads its information, we will Be able to, um, brag or hide in a corner and, you know, avoid the other person. One of those two things. So, all right, man, this has been fun, fun exercise. We're getting, we're inching closer to, you know, real football, real football that has consequences and matters and you want to see a win. So, um, for Jacob, I'm Jason. Go lions.
