E32: "Biting Re-Caps" - Trade Candidates - Week 7: At Minnesota Vikings

Hosts Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton discuss the game's pivotal moments, emphasizing strategic decisions, key plays, and individual performances that led to the win. Key highlights include special teams' contributions like Jake Bates' game-winning field goal and Jack Fox’s punting, and defensive heroes like Brian Branch's interception and blocked conversion. The discussion covers the offensive side, praising Jared Goff's quarterbacking, Jahmyr Gibbs' rushing yards, and the vital role of the offensive line. The analysis includes clock management, coaching decisions, defensive strategies, and potential mid-season trade speculations. 

Want to support us?

Item Shop

Visit us on Facebook

Visit us on X: @talkinggritpod
Jason - @Jason_TGPod
Jacob - @jmallitton

YouTube

Talking Grit Website

Talking Grit Subreddit

Email Us: talkinggritpodcast@yahoo.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:23 Weathering the Storm
• 8:30 Special Teams Performance
• 12:27 Defensive Highlights
• 25:20 Offensive Breakdown
• 32:43 Jared Goff's Impressive Performance
• 37:08 ey Plays and Player Highlights
• 42:31 Game Strategy and Clock Management
• 53:45 Trade Deadline Speculations
• 1:00:18 Concluding Thoughts and Fantasy Football

Transcript

Jason Harwood: 0:41

welcome to Talking Grit, I'm Jason Harwood, and of course, Jacob Litton is here too on this Victory Monday. Lions topped the Vikings 31 29. It was a great win. It was a great battle. It was just a fun game to watch overall. Jacob, give me a word or phrase to describe this game.

Jacob: 1:04

Ooh, that's tough. Alright, well if I'm gonna use one word, I'm gonna use the word that Dan Campbell used. I'm gonna say resilient.

Jason Harwood: 1:14

All right, I think that's a good word. Mine was, uh, exhausting because, man, I was

Jacob: 1:19

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 1:20

after this game. It was, was quite the game. So just like we do everything, every time in these biting recaps, we're going to start with just at the beginning, some overall thoughts, uh, about the game before we get into the, our individual offensive defenses performance. So the first thing that, you know, we talked about it before and talked about it in the interview with Arif Hassan we needed to weather the storm at the beginning. Cause the Vikings always just come out and seem to put a bunch of points on and then play from ahead. boy, did they weather that storm and come right back, Dan Campbell said in his post game press conference, the word composure come up. And. It definitely showed it.

Jacob: 2:03

Okay. Okay.

Jason Harwood: 2:19

was very happy about that. Cause when you, you and I were texting Jacob, we were like, this is not starting out the way we wanted it to start out.

Jacob: 2:28

Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, the 1st drive, we know what we're trying to do, right? We want to drive. We want to put points on the board. And then that resulted in us with the fake punt on 4th down, it didn't look like a very good play call. I don't know if that was just dead set. That was what was going to happen or if that was a look that they were looking for and they thought they had a chance, but. You know, we don't get the fourth down attempt, so then they start the ball in our own territory, and they quickly, uh, turn that into seven points. So, you know, about as bad of a start as you could have right there. Well, how did you feel about the fake pun? I mean, hindsight, obviously, you don't like it, but

Jason Harwood: 3:08

no, I didn't like it to begin with fourth and seven and we already talked about. We don't want this team to start out hot. And that's

Jacob: 3:15

right.

Jason Harwood: 3:16

it felt like we were playing right into their hands, uh, Dan Campbell. They were asked him about that in the press conference today on Monday, asked him about it. And he said, we had the look that we wanted. We just didn't execute. He

Jacob: 3:29

Yeah, okay.

Jason Harwood: 3:30

They could have checked out of that call, but, you know, know, the lines are not afraid to go for it, I just thought risk was too great for the reward. Um, on that one, just, we were just pinned down too far on that. That's my opinion. I

Jacob: 3:44

Right, right. That's what I was wondering, though, because obviously we want to go put points on the board first, but I just, you know I didn't know if that's what it was, if it was just a certain look that we got, or if that was just the play call no matter what, so.

Jason Harwood: 3:57

Yeah, it

Jacob: 3:57

That makes sense.

Jason Harwood: 3:58

the look. I mean, they will work with their coaching. They'd work with their scout team. That's what, you know, they had a place set up for that. It just, I didn't like the pre snap motion that they had.

Jacob: 4:11

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 4:12

just cause it almost gives it away right there that, Hey, read alert that this is going to be a fake or something weird's coming. Cause you never see that motion like on a regular punt. So I think that that just kind of gives it away right there. Cause it was going to be an option play.

Jacob: 4:28

Right. I do think, I mean, obviously, we didn't punt at all last game, so we don't, we haven't been punting very often, but I do think we use motion during regular punts sometimes.

Jason Harwood: 4:38

Yeah, I guess I'm not, we don't punt enough for me to know, I guess,

Jacob: 4:42

Yeah, right, right.

Jason Harwood: 4:43

but it

Jacob: 4:44

have to look into it more.

Jason Harwood: 4:45

as soon as that guy went in motion, I was like, Oh no. I mean, sometimes our gunners will go in motion on the side, you know, they'll either go out wider or come

Jacob: 4:52

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 4:53

Um, but not in the backfield like that. Another thought that I had in this game was, Dan Campbell's, initial press conference when we hired him talked about, you know, it's where the name of this series of biting recaps comes from the biting kneecaps. And I felt that this game personified that, we Took their 10 Oh punch. You know, we came up, we, you know, we bit their kneecap off. We came down, we scored then we were up by 11, right. And then they got that fumble from Montgomery, end up taking the lead. That was the second kneecap on the way up. And then we come down and score on him again and win that game. I just felt like this is what the type of team that Dan Campbell wants. uh, it, it was, it was perfect.

Jacob: 5:39

Definitely. I mean, we answered every time that we needed to. We stayed in it. You know, we stayed calm. We, we knew our shot was coming even, you know, like you said, when they return that fumble. I mean, we, we have the lead at the end of the game right there and we are hoping to sustain a long drive, take some clock off, maybe put points on the board and just end it. And, you know, they get that quick fumble return for a touchdown and we come right back out there and it's still just business as usual, you know, like they didn't skip a beat. I don't think the play calling was any different. The urgency even, I know, I think it was uh, Greg Olson who was the announcer, who was kind of like dogging about, you know, the way they were calling the plays, and the way they were letting the clock roll, and everything like that, and how we weren't in field goal territory yet, or whatever, and I think that's just the way the team is. I mean, that's the way we do things. We, we trust our offense, we trust our guys, and we're not gonna, we're not gonna change up those play calls like that, it's just business as usual. Mm hmm.

Jason Harwood: 6:33

when we get into the offensive breakdown at the my next point in this overall thought was, I thought the clock management at the end of the half and the end of the game were about as perfect as you could imagine, um, it ran just played perfectly into what we wanted to do and. I'll get into that further as far as my breakdown because of the point that Olsen made about, you know, they should get into field goal range first then run out the clock. But I that that was huge the way we broke down the half at the end of the half and then also the same thing at the end of the game. Trying to give the other team as little as possible. time as possible, but yeah, I believe enough time that we can not feel rushed and score. And I, felt like they, you know, we go back to that word composure. I thought we had both composure at both the end of the half and the end of the game, never felt rushed, never felt hurried. They just took care of business and trusted that, Hey, we're going to get down there. And I think all that playoff, um, you know, that we've run the playoffs out of that high pressure situation. And winning the division last year is just. Made this core of this team we're going to get this done. We just need to, you know, execute.

Jacob: 7:46

Right, trust the process,

Jason Harwood: 7:49

Um, another, you know, thing I thought for sure that we miss Zytler a lot in this game. I think we would have ran the ball even better. Had we had a Zytler in there, you know, Avashika started off rough, two holding penalties back to back in the first drive, end up having to go, you know, three and out. he had, you know, other false start penalties. So I, I. He was one of the lower PFF graded, uh, individuals on the line. So I was kind of disappointed in his performance, but you know, we ended up getting the, getting it done. And, you know, I would have really loved to add Zeitler in there just to see what the difference in the game would have been.

Jacob: 8:27

yeah, absolutely,

Jason Harwood: 8:30

All right, special teams. we got to start out with Jake Bates, know, we were, he's had a pressure pack kick before at the end of the Rams game, but this was, you know, is it for his, for the win. If he doesn't make that, we lose. So that it was great to see him make that 44 yarder. It really looked pretty good. I mean, it wasn't directly down the middle, but it wasn't, you know, it looked better than there's

Jacob: 8:55

wasn't a close call, yeah, right, right,

Jason Harwood: 8:58

I told I was sitting with my wife watching the game and I was like, watch this extra point and, and he kicks it and he kicks it in the same exact spot almost every time it's to the right of the crossbar and

Jacob: 9:10

it's like slicing up through,

Jason Harwood: 9:12

yeah, and, you know, it looks like it's good, but I don't know for sure until I look down and see the refs, if they, you know, call it good, cause it's so close, but this, I was so happy that this extra point or this, uh, game winning field goal was, uh, Wasn't even a, it was no question. It was going through.

Jacob: 9:32

were you nervous at all when he came out there,

Jason Harwood: 9:35

I mean, I would have been nervous no matter what. I think there was a little bit of extra nervousness cause if we don't get into questions about should we have gotten a experience kick or come up and like, then you have to go through all that stuff. I did. that puts that to bed. He's been really good. He's been consistent. Uh, you know, his kickoffs have been really well. I'm, I'm happy with Jake Bates. He's been better than I expected him to be, frankly. I thought there'd be some easy misses, um, this far as some growing pains, but he's been good. And this just is another, you know, cements his status as this is the Lions kicker for the season.

Jacob: 10:13

absolutely, yeah, you know, I was a little nervous too and you know, it's funny, I had those same things running through my head, where? Obviously, it's a big moment. Biggest moment thus far for him, you know, loudest crowd while he's trying to kick. I'm sure that he's ever had, you know, it's an away game. This is as crucial as it gets and you're right. Then you have that whole, you know, if he misses even with how good he's been, if he misses this kick, we're going to have to answer all these questions. Do they bring in another kicker right away? You know, like, It's just, it's a mess that we don't need. So that was huge for him to go ahead and nail that one. Get his little celebration in there at the end. Uh, that was funny too.

Jason Harwood: 10:53

Yep,

Jacob: 10:54

But no, it was perfect. I mean he's, he's doing everything that we asked him to do.

Jason Harwood: 10:57

Yep. Uh, Jack Fox had a good game to flip the field a couple of times. You know, we had, like we said, we had to actually use them this game, uh, unlike the last game where we didn't punt versus the Cowboys. So, know, Jack Fox is a nice weapon to have, um, on our sidelines, you know, especially when we're playing complimentary football as Dan Gamble likes to play, the defense has played better this year. And so Jack Fox is turning into quite the weapon because, you know, We don't have to play as dangerous and go for it in crazy situations. We can punt it and just have faith that our defense is going to provide a stop. And they did at the end of this game. We

Jacob: 11:35

Exactly.

Jason Harwood: 11:36

Yeah, we went three and out. Jack Fox kicked it, flipped the field, and then Vikings go three and out. And then we get the ball back and on that game winning drive. It just takes all three phases and I thought all three phases showed up in this game and they needed to be the Vikings were a good team five and Oh, it's, it's a division battle where lines are now number one in the NFC, NFC North and the NFC as a whole. So that's a good place to be. It was a great game. Great game. Um,

Jacob: 12:04

Yeah, that's, you know, no punt was bigger than that one there at the end where, you know, we knew times right now we need to start driving and instead we go three and I'll leave a bunch of time on the clock and then Jack Fox punts and they have to start with the ball. I think if there wasn't their own 20

Jason Harwood: 12:20

yeah,

Jacob: 12:21

it around from our, you know, our 20 to their 20 basically. Like, I mean, it, it was a huge one.

Jason Harwood: 12:27

let's move on to the defense here. let you start out. What was your thoughts on defense as a whole? What, what do you want to start out with?

Jacob: 12:35

Uh, well, I have to start off by just once again saying how amazing Brian Branch is, and just how well he's been playing, and how much of a difference maker he is when he's out there. You know, his pass coverage, being able to move him around everywhere, blitzing, helping out in the run game, breaking up passes, the, you know, awesome interception that he had. He's just everywhere. And I mean, now, especially with Aiden down, I think that Brian Branch is our best defender, and that's somebody that, you know, we have to rely on. And he definitely answered the bell this time.

Jason Harwood: 13:06

He did all pro season so far. I mean, I don't think there's any question about

Jacob: 13:10

No.

Jason Harwood: 13:11

Um, you know, the interception, you know, was just a nice play. I mean, just great. Again, he anticipates where the quarterback is going to go. interception is kind of interesting because the whole time Sam Darnold's like Aaron Jones comes out of the backfield and he's wide open for a first down and he's looking at him the whole way and then he changes his direction and goes over towards Addison and Branch just jumps the route and he makes an amazing catch. I mean, for a wide receiver, that's a good catch. Uh, he's fully stretched out. It was an impressive play and I don't know if you noticed, but on the two point conversion, the failed two point conversion, the

Jacob: 13:49

Yes.

Jason Harwood: 13:50

branch jumped up and blocked that too. When we were talking the soft season about Brian branch back to safety, you know, there's questions like he's such a good nickel corner. Why are you going to take them out of something that he's really good? These plays that he's made the last, especially the last two weeks. Where he has more free range because he is a safety the interception in the end zone, you know When he comes back off cd lam gets at this interception the two point conversion those are just Three examples of game changing in place. He's allowed to play because he's a safety and he's not tied to one man. He could kind of use his instincts and he has unreal instincts, just amazing football instincts.

Jacob: 14:37

Definitely. Just, uh, you know, another great game from him. Like you said, all pro season, definitely.

Jason Harwood: 14:45

yeah, he's on his way. We didn't have Aiden and I've noticed the lack of pressure. Right away. Um, I think it tells us two things. One, you know, something's gonna have to be done. Just in a pressure pressure package or, you know, just scheme wise. But two, it also shows I, to me, it shows how good our secondary is. Has become much better than last year. Darnold had a ton of time and Darnold's been able to rip up some other teams this year, and he still could not find open people, um, in this game. And so, you know, we kept JJ, Justin Jefferson under a hundred yards of receiving last year, he torched us for like almost 200 and both games. So

Jacob: 15:31

Right.

Jason Harwood: 15:32

big difference, big difference.

Jacob: 15:35

Yeah, and that deep touchdown catch, I mean, Amik Robertson was right on him. He only had a half step, it was a great throw, it was a great diving catch by him.

Jason Harwood: 15:42

Yep.

Jacob: 15:43

outside of that, that's a great point. I mean, cause it is frustrating when you see him drop back. We're only rushing four and then he's got all day and he did, you know, sometimes when the pressure was too hot, he was able to take off and, you know, rip off a couple of huge chunk runs, but. You know, you're right. For the most part, we weren't, we weren't letting up downfield that resulted in a couple illegal contact or holding and things like that. But I mean, we've already said that's who we are. We're not going to change. Aaron Glenn said we're not changing the way we play defense. We're going to be tight. We're playing coverage right on them. If that means we get a legal contact and they get 5 yards. So be it, we're going to let them run and rip off a 2030 yard gain because we let them lose.

Jason Harwood: 16:24

Yeah, I think we only let up to 1st play penalty calls, so that's that's actually an improvement for us. If you look at the PFF grades, on the defense, four, I think four, four of our top five are linebackers. Cause I thought the linebackers played really well. When you get down to number seven, Terrians on their Terrians bumps his play up and we've noticed that, um, outside of the initial play where he overruns and Aaron Jones comes to his side, that was the only time that I noticed He's not getting called for PI. He's not getting called for a defensive hold or anything like that.

Jacob: 17:02

Um,

Jason Harwood: 17:16

knockdown passes. The last two weeks, especially seeing, know, the reduction of penalties after the bi week, and now we're just going to see this progression. So that's what I'm hoping to see from Tarion. It's what I expect to see from Tarion. So it's good. So he doesn't have to keep having the questions about, up to the first round draft pick status and all that garbage that goes along with that.

Jacob: 17:37

Right, as the game slows down for him more, he knows where he's supposed to be. He's always had the ability to play coverage. It was, you know. Just those holding calls, the pass interference calls and everything like that. So very good. I mean, I know last week they said it was Terry on his best game that he had against the Cowboys. And I think, you know, he's played out to that level, even better this time,

Jason Harwood: 17:57

Nope.

Jacob: 17:58

just to touch on the linebacker things. I know you just mentioned that. Um, I was very impressed by how the linebackers played. I know we did end up giving up, uh, you know, a decent amount of rush yards, but I think Sam Donald had like 39 yards. Aaron Jones at 35 on that one run. I think that was over half of the amount of rush yards that they had. The linebackers were playing very well, and that's Nowaski. Jack Campbell actually looked very good out there, and so did Rodrigo. So, very encouraging that the linebacker play was very good, and I think that kind of made up for the fact that the defensive line play was, I, in my opinion, I don't think the defensive line play was very good at all, and that's what I was worried about coming into this game,

Jason Harwood: 18:42

I agree. AG blitz more in this game than he had all season, like 57. 1% of snaps they were blitzing on. But even

Jacob: 18:51

because we had to. Right, absolutely.

Jason Harwood: 19:09

we'll, at the end of this, just so everybody, we'll talk if we're going to have to trade someone because of the Hutch injury, we'll talk about that at the end, we're going to table that conversation. But yeah, we will get to it in this podcast, um, because I. Think after seeing this game, know, those questions are just going to persist. And even Dan Camel in his press conference today, they asked him about that. And he said he X, he expects more from the defensive line. And we'll see. I mean, the Vikings tackles are very good. Their interior is not as good. So that kind of disappointment that Liam didn't get home more. Um, and so I expected the tackles to play. Well, we got You know, they're both top 10 tackles on that they have. It's a good offensive line is just, you know, especially as much as the house we were bringing with the linebackers and everything, we just couldn't get home, missing Derek Barnes in that situation for sure.

Jacob: 20:03

And I mean, that was something else that I talked about, though, as far as defensive line outside of pass rush is just the contain and, our team's going to be using those outside runs against us more. What are they going to do? And that was the first running play of the game was an outside run. You know, he had a read zone in the middle. He busts it to the outside. You know, our defensive end, I don't know what side it was on because I did not watch the film. Whoever was in crashed in. Brian Branch actually met in the hole. He was there to make that play had he went up the hole. Instead, he comes outside. That's where Terrians contain supposed to be is and Terrians in the middle of the field. And it was just a foot race and they made it way too easy. But that's the kind of thing I think teams are looking at that and they probably already are planning that just because they know our speed on the edge is pretty much gone now. So they're going to be trying those outside runs more.

Jason Harwood: 20:53

I mean, our corners usually get right up and run defense. So I, I like our edge, um, rush, rush defense. We just overcommitted to the inside and Aaron Jones has just had a really good season. Saturday, when I saw the tweet from Adam Schefter that Aaron Jones was going to play, it was like, Oh darn it. I was hoping we were going to miss him for this game. it probably would have made a big difference because I don't think anybody else scores on that play, um, that's in their backfield, but it is what it is. It's, you know, as far as a measuring stick, I'm glad that we were able to hold up against Aaron Jones and, you know, their offense was intact, you know, as, as a whole.

Jacob: 21:33

Outside of that one play, I mean, they had a couple, you know, like you said, they had a couple. Up the middle runs, which, you know, Aleem and DJ reader did play majority of the snaps in this game and, uh, you know, they were able to be effective running up the middle to a certain degree. Obviously, we have a really good run defense. I talked about the linebackers played really well, but, you know, we don't want to give up more than 100 yards rushing a game. They had 139 in this game.

Jason Harwood: 22:00

Yeah, I mean, the stats across the board, if you look at the stats, it's like a mirror image of each

Jacob: 22:06

Right?

Jason Harwood: 22:07

Um,

Jacob: 22:07

crazy.

Jason Harwood: 22:08

it is like crazy. I, I don't know if I've ever seen anything this close. I mean, time of possession, we had 29. had 30, 30, 57. So almost 31. Um, you know, we ran almost the same amount of plays, 56 to 52. Uh, we had a 391 yards. They had 383 Uh, you know, obviously the score was close 31, 29. I mean, both Goff and Sam Darnold complete 22 passes. We just did it in 25. They did it in 27. The passing yards are just three yards apart. Uh, the rushing yards were, um, just five yards apart. We had 144, they're 139. Both had, each had a turnover. Both are four for 10 on third down. So it's like when you go down there, it's, same exact stats. I mean, they got that return that for a touchdown, which, know, we could argue that we almost had the same exact thing when branch returned that one. That replay showed how close that play was.

Jacob: 23:12

Right.

Jason Harwood: 23:12

as long as they looked at it, I don't understand how they overturned that because I couldn't see anything conclusive, like about that and they let it run. Branch would have been, uh, you know, defensive player of the week, two weeks in a row. Had he got that, cause he would

Jacob: 23:28

Yeah. Right.

Jason Harwood: 23:29

recovery touchdown

Jacob: 23:31

There's a heck of a return by him, too. To score that.

Jason Harwood: 23:34

Yeah. Yep. Then, you know, they never blew the whistle, so it was alive the whole time. But I mean, I like that we're punching the ball out there, even on the sidelines. I mean, I think some players just let up because they're near the sidelines and with last week, we had to punch out right on the sideline again, too.

Jacob: 23:50

Yeah, definitely. Um, the replay, the first replay that I saw, I thought, okay, yeah, for sure. He's out. Still a nice play. He's out. And then the second one, when they showed, well, his heel's kinda up in the air, he's not all the way down yet. And then, you know, how long they looked at it, I was like, maybe there's a chance here.

Jason Harwood: 24:06

Yeah. Cause they went to, they showed that first replay before the commercial break. And so the whole commercial break, I'm just thinking in my head, I'm like, I'm hoping that a different angle shows something different and we're going to come back and then they did, they go, it's a lot closer on the second look. And I was like, Oh man, if we could

Jacob: 24:22

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 24:23

that's going to be huge.

Jacob: 24:24

If only.

Jason Harwood: 24:25

Yeah, but it just didn't happen. I, I, I wanted it for the lines as much as I wanted for Brian branch, you know, just cause I was repping his Jersey yesterday. I had my branch Jersey on. So he was doing me proud by then the game he was having.

Jacob: 24:38

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 24:39

The only thing I want to add on the defense is that we let Sam Darnold run right up to him. The gut too much time it's so far this year, we've been able to crunch the pocket. So you keep in the rushing lanes, know, we're able to just condense the pocket. We weren't able to do that. And they are inside rushers. We're getting to the outside and they're just leaving it wide open. And you let Sam Darnell run for 39 yards on you. That's. You know, not happy about that. Uh, but know, again, first game without Aiden, figuring it out. And AG will come up with a good plan for next week. I have faith in that. Just like defense. I'm gonna let you start off, Jacob. Talk to us about the offense. So where do you want to start with this?

Jacob: 25:25

Oh, well, I think you have to start off with, uh, Jameer Gibbs, right? I mean, this was his coming out party. You said in the last podcast that you were surprised he didn't have a, you know, that he didn't break one off for a touchdown yet. And then he didn't make us wait too long before he busted that one out, you know, Unfortunately, I think that his, um, you know, his increased usage was at the expense of David Montgomery. He went down with that injury. He did come back, but you could tell he just wasn't the same. You know, he still banged up. He was still feeling that the whole time. So then they had, uh, you know, they still kept going back and forth, but now Jameer Gibbs had the more attempts and he turned that 15 attempts, 116 yards, two touchdowns. He was electric, you know, we always knew he was capable of, and he just got to showcase that a little more today against this, uh, you know, top run defense before.

Jason Harwood: 26:20

I expected more from Gibbs in this game than Montgomery just because of how Um, the Vikings play rush defense and there was just going to be some holes every once in a while and Gibbs is able to exploit those and get to the next level quicker than Montgomery can. When they play so many people on the line with the Vikings then sometimes they'll back out. But sometimes they'll just stay in there. And if they're handing off to Montgomery, you know, Montgomery can't break tackles, but you know, when they have six people on the line, it's hard for him to, you know, get to the second level. Whereas Gibbs can go to the outside a little bit, or just his speed was. A better weapon

Jacob: 26:58

Oh,

Jason Harwood: 27:05

yards, I'm sure the injury factored into it, but. You know, it's great to win. We can go to our backup running back and it's Jameer Gibbs. Who's, you know, a pro bowl back of pro bowl running back. The first touchdown run was awesome. Um, so I'm watching the game upstairs with my wife. My boys are watching it downstairs. both streaming. They're like. I, they're like five seconds ahead of me or something. They're like basically almost one play ahead of me. Maybe not even though that, and I could hear them cheering. So I'm like, Oh, something's good. It's going to happen. And then I hear ankles, you know, that's what they're, you know, these kids, that's what they say they, you know, when someone breaks their ankles, that's what they scream out and that's exactly what happened, I mean, Just Jameer gave him the shoulder juke and that safety bit so hard. And then, you know, Jameer just ran. And then, um, the cornerback or the safety on the other side could have was had an angle on Jameer, but Jamison ran right with him. And so he was going to take him out of the play. And so that was easy coasting for the last five years. For Jameer, but that was, that was an awesome run. Um, you know, as long as of his career, you know, especially for the touchdown, that was, that was great. Cause that was our, that was the first touchdown. So that was like, all right, we're back into this. This is, you know, not gonna just wipe this game away from us. We're, we're here. We're the lions. And it was, it was great to see.

Jacob: 28:32

yeah, that was definitely, you know, that drive we needed some sort of points, even a field goal. We need to put something on the board because of how the game was going. And then, you know, one play, we get the touchdown back. Um, you know, you can always count on Jane will be in downfield throwing blocks to

Jason Harwood: 28:47

We mentioned Jameer, we got to mention the other guy, JG golf playing out play bright, best quarterback in the NFL right now, the last three weeks. I mean, I don't know how much you could. Play better than him living up to that contract. you know, he had a rating of one for only one 40 in this game, only one 40, which

Jacob: 29:06

only

Jason Harwood: 29:07

yeah, he was in the plus one 50s the

Jacob: 29:09

that's low for him.

Jason Harwood: 29:10

Yeah. Just, you know. It's rough. You know, it's what we got to deal with here in Detroit. Um, just an awesome three game stretch. I think they said that the Lions have had more touchdowns and incompletions in the last like three weeks or something like that,

Jacob: 29:26

I saw that too. Yes.

Jason Harwood: 29:28

unbelievable, you can say, well, he's doing a lot of checkdowns or whatever. No, he's making money throws. Uh, he's making tough throws, um, especially that, you know, the game winning drive that throw to Amon Ra,

Jacob: 29:42

Right. Yes.

Jason Harwood: 29:44

you know, it was, knew it was going to Amin Ra. Everybody in the stadium had to know that was going to Amin Ra and yet he still open and just, you know, Amin Ra, he had two, two defenders taking a hit and he held on to the ball. So that was a clutch throw and a clutch catch.

Jacob: 30:01

You know, really the whole game, we talked about this before, but that's what the Vikings like to do. They come up to the line, they're showing certain pressure, uh, you know, and they're making the quarterback try to read. And then a lot of their defense is guessing games. You don't know who's coming. You don't know who's dropping. You don't know where they're at. And, you know, Jared Goff, he's so smart. He's just such a good quarterback. So good at executing. He really, he read that very well. And if you go back and look at most of these plays, when he's making these checkdowns, and he's changing these plays at the line, um, I mean, that touchdown that he threw to Amin Ra, you know, that, he came down to the line, he called the defense out, he's making the checkdowns, he's, he knows what he's doing before the play even snapped. He knows what they're showing them, and he knows what he wants to do, and, you know, they had a zero blitz on him, and he stood in the pocket, and he knew, and that, you know, there were just many instances like that, and I think that was a difference in why we won this game, is how well he was able to read the defense. And make those throws.

Jason Harwood: 31:00

Well, I just think it goes back to the composure, right? I mean, Jared, none of this game was too big for Jared Goff. You know, he. He even said it, he goes, they were giving them a lot of checkdowns. So that's it. He's going to take it, but you're checking down to David Montgomery, who also made an awesome one handed catch, uh,

Jacob: 31:18

Yeah,

Jason Harwood: 31:18

like a first down. That was a great catch. And then, you know, you're checking out to Jameer Gibbs. Who's got amazing speed. It's okay to do those check downs. Cause they're going to get a lot of yak and get a lot of yards after catching, get first downs. And so that's what makes this offense so dangerous. Jamo didn't do anything in this game because they weren't, the defense was not going to let them, him get over the top. Um, that's why the Amin Ra going deep, you know, not, people don't expect Amin Ra to go deep like that, have that, you know, streak route. They weren't expecting that. Jared Goff you couldn't throw it any better. It was great in stride touchdown. Uh, you know, it's just, Jared Goff is playing amazing football. Um, you know, for the people that signed contracts this off season, he is definitely the one that's lived up to the billing so far, in my opinion.

Jacob: 32:08

And he, once again, didn't even have an incomplete pass until, you know, the second half. And that first incompletion was, one, they batted down, he had Laborda.

Jason Harwood: 32:16

I know it was crazy. Um, posted a fun stat on Twitter, uh, this morning. So since Brian Flores has taken over, uh, coordinator for the Vikings last year, defensive coordinator for the Vikings spent 23 games, he's, a team, they've only given up 30 points, four times, three of them are to the lions and they played

Jacob: 32:41

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 32:41

times. Uh, we've. You know, think the lines are uniquely set up to beat Brian Flores, just because of the weapons we have and the offensive line, the smart offensive and excellent offensive line that we have, we're able to call out and get good protection and you have a quarterback like Goff that just knows where to go with the ball and could throw it there accurately and not get rattled. Um, Because got to be intimidating when you see six people on the line and you don't know where they're coming from and you got to make all those decisions. We talked about in the pregame or the preview podcast, you know, golf said, he's got to make a million decisions before the snap. And right after the snap, just based on where they're, you know, the defense is showing up. So, uh, way to go golf. I'm just so happy. He's our quarterback. Just of the best quarterback play consistent quarterback play. I've seen from a lions quarterback ever in my life.

Jacob: 33:37

Right? And I mean, he had a couple of times where, you know, the defender was going for like the strip sack, trying to swat the ball away. And then, you know, when you're watching it live, you're like, Oh, get rid of it, get rid of it, do something. You know, you just see it happening. And, uh, you know, they missed the strip sack. I think he did end up fumbling once, but two of them, they missed and he was able to get the throw off on one. I think he still got sacked the other, um, Yeah, but you know that's another when he starts feeling the pressure you start feeling the heat sometimes That's kind of throw up a bad pass, and he hasn't been doing that I

Jason Harwood: 34:08

Thing that he's changed in his game this year is just, he's willing to run number one, he, that's something he's changed this year. And also just, I've noticed his movement and his pocket has been a lot better. He moves just enough to get out of pressure and to be able to make the play. The throw. And I think part of that is just confidence of where his players are going to be. And he just knows where he needs to get. Um, but that play that, part of his game has excelled this year. Just the, pressure avoidance and just moving slightly in the pocket to avoid, you know, the strip sack or, you know, the turnover or whatever he's able to do that. And, you know, one thing that I remembered him doing a lot last year was throwing at, uh, Screen would be busted and he would just throw it at the feet of the running back, which I'm okay with better than forcing a play, but I don't see that much this year. So either they are calling better plays or golf is just moving around enough to, you know, get his guy open.

Jacob: 35:06

Don't feel like we have to look at the stats here, but I don't feel like they've been throwing very many screen passes I don't think that's come up very much because the you know the pass protection and really the run game has been so effective You haven't really had to do it as much.

Jason Harwood: 35:21

They had a really good, uh, LaPorta had a very good screen. I think that was in the, been

Jacob: 35:27

Was that the week one?

Jason Harwood: 35:28

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a Rams game. He had a really good screen, but yet they don't run. I mean, a lot of them are check downs and so they'll have, you know, Montgomery or Gibbs to the flats, which I wouldn't call screen passes at all. Um, just think that this

Jacob: 35:43

It's not design screen.

Jason Harwood: 35:46

sometimes I think this offensive line is so good that if people know they're getting a free rush, if like the defenders know they're getting a free rush, they know something's up because they, you know, like, oh, yeah, screens coming because I shouldn't have got by Penesool that quickly.

Jacob: 36:00

Right. You just mentioned them, Panay Sool, I mean, had a heck of a game, as he always does. But I think it might have been on that Amun Ra touchdown I was already talking about when he kind of blocked two guys and allowed Gough to have that time to throw. Because like I said, it was a zero blitz. They were sending everyone. There was nobody deep covering except for the safety coming. Like, yeah, Sool's awesome.

Jason Harwood: 36:23

Yeah, I guess, I think Justin Rogers asked him about that. He's like, do you know that's coming? And Panay goes, I'd have, he goes, goes, it's all instincts. He said, his main goal is to protect Jared golf. So if he's on someone and there's a guy that's going to beat him there, he, he peels off and blocks that guy. And that's exactly, he did that last week too. Um, and just peeled off and blocked, uh, you know, a free runner and just enough for golf to get the pass out. Cause sometimes it doesn't take like a full on block, you know, just give

Jacob: 36:55

He's got a hand on him.

Jason Harwood: 36:56

Yeah, you just need to like chip him or, you know, just enough to, to slow him down a little bit. So golf has time to throw it. Um, yeah, that's great. Uh, a great observation. So drive before halftime, Vikings don't have any timeouts. You know, Lions want to, obviously they want to score. That's the ultimate thing in there, but we also don't want to get the Vikings a lot of time left. So they, they, know, I'm going to start out with the pass. They probably. Passed on Laporta, get down to around the 12th then the clock gets run and they could basically go down the two minute warning at that point. So we're first and 10 at the 12th and we have two runs by Gibbs. We get down, I think we're at like the nine at this point, it's third and seven, know, we got the clock all the way down to 26 seconds. So we're basically, it's going to be us scoring a field goal if we miss this or. You know, if we get the touchdown, which we eventually do. And if you like play breakdowns, if you like to listen, look at that kind of stuff. I, this was the, one of my favorite plays of the game, this third and seven touchdown run for Jameer Gibbs. I broke it down on YouTube. out our YouTube channel talking grit and it's. Um, it's one of my favorite plays, the breakdown. So if you want to in depth, look at this one specific play, go there and check it out. Um, but it was awesome. And I don't know how we keep surprising teams on third and seven or longer and running the ball, but I love it. And we're keep, you gotta keep the defense honest, um, play review, it is obvious that the Vikings were playing pass the whole way. Harrison Smith doesn't even know that it's a run until runs into him in the end zone. It is, Harrison has his eyes on Amun Ra the whole time. It doesn't even know that it's a run. Penae Sewell, who you mentioned earlier, no one's on top of him. The, they have six on the line and look, you know, Olsen said, it looked like an all out blitz. Well, they back, they back out those guys. They only rushed four, but no one was on top of Sewell. So Sewell got to the second level and, uh, Our Sheikah actually made a really nice block to clear the lane. And I mean, I mean, Gibbs didn't touch anybody until he got into the end zone, practically. So it was, you know, and at that point they, you know, they had like 17 seconds or something left on the clock for the Vikings. They ended up, you know, not getting anything. And so we scored touchdown right before half, which was. You know exactly what you wanted to do.

Jacob: 39:29

Right, and you know, that is 3rd and 7, technically you would consider that a passing down. You know, we're at the 8 yard line. It's hard scoring in the red zone when they have past defense like that. And that's what they were trying to do. They're trying to fend so that there was going to be no touchdown. They're trying to hold us to a field goal. We surprised him with a Gibbs run. And like you said, it was perfectly executed, perfectly blocked. I mean, it, you know. It was awesome.

Jason Harwood: 39:55

Yeah,

Jacob: 39:55

you know, if you're calling the place and you're Ben Johnson, if that doesn't go that way and you do get stopped, you know, they were still, it was third and seven. So, I mean, there's potential. We could have got a first down inside the one and we had another timeout left. I was 100 percent okay with that play call. That was great.

Jason Harwood: 40:12

yeah, and it totally caught him off guard And one thing I will shout out is we talked about jmo's blocking earlier He actually got a chip block on van ginko. So it ginko could have came because he was unblocked. He could have came right down the line He was van ginko's playing end and jamo got just enough of him that gibbs could just get through the hole and uh, It It was a whole team effort. And then when we talk about why these runs are so explosive, it, the wide receivers play a huge role. Tim Patrick on the 45 yard touchdown run by Gibbs had an awesome block that sprung that, and, you know, talk about a guy that's fitting in. Tim Patrick is exactly what we were missing in training camp. The whole time that we're talking about, we need one of these guys, these big receivers to step up. Well, Tim Patrick. He was on the Denver Broncos roster the whole time. And then he came to Detroit and he's. He's meshed well with everybody. He's doing what we want. And he talks very highly about this room, this wide receiver room. Everyone is selfless and gives up their body and blocks on every play. And I'm so glad that we ended up getting Patrick on this team. I expect we're going to be using him a lot more as the season goes on. His big body's going to come in useful for some first downs. Um, He's already had a couple nice big plays, but he's shown up every game blocking, I can tell you that. That

Jacob: 41:37

Was that him or Jamo that hit that block when, uh, Kalief scored? Because on Kalief's touchdown, uh, Gilmore kind of fell down and Kalief just comes across the field.

Jason Harwood: 41:46

was

Jacob: 41:46

was almost too easy.

Jason Harwood: 41:47

that was Gibbs,

Jacob: 41:48

Oh, it's Gibbs. Okay.

Jason Harwood: 41:50

came out, you talk about when Kalief goes around the

Jacob: 41:53

Well, yeah, because he came across the middle, caught it, and then there was only the safety. I think it was Metellus they had to throw the block on.

Jason Harwood: 41:58

Yeah. So Gibbs basically just like gets in the way cause technically the defenders backs to him. So you can't block him,

Jacob: 42:06

Right.

Jason Harwood: 42:07

there so that, you know, when he turns around cause cleave so fast, he just needed to get around the

Jacob: 42:12

He just needs that angle. Yep. Were

Jason Harwood: 42:26

did. Oh, that was, yeah, that was a great play. So, um, getting back to running the clock the game winning drive, Olson is saying, do they know that they're losing? yes, they know what they're doing. They're, they're going to run out the clock. I think the problem is that some people rush way down there, get down there. You know, teams will get down into field goal position and then can't run enough clock off. Lions were so confident in their team that, Hey, this is going to be the drive. They knew what they needed to do. As Olson's telling us why, uh, you know, what Dan Campbell's doing is wrong. We get into field goal range and we still had like a minute, you know, over a minute left to go. And just, I'm not saying Olson's wrong, but Dan Campbell knows his team. So I'm not going to question. Hit, you know, his expertise in this at all.

Jacob: 43:17

you surprised when we decided, so we've got the ball on their 22 yard line. Over a minute left. Um. Were you surprised when we decided to kneel the ball out at that point?

Jason Harwood: 43:29

Yeah, I was kind of surprised. Um, but again, it's a risk reward thing. Like the Vikings are just going to be trying to punch that ball

Jacob: 43:39

Right, right.

Jason Harwood: 43:40

dragging and crawling for five yards, is that going to make it, you know, you know, Bates has got the leg, so it's not like a matter of that. and honestly, he's probably just as accurate at 44 as he is at, you know, 34. The previous play before they kneeled it, Gibbs ran to the outside and that's all they were doing. It was trying, you know,

Jacob: 44:01

Yeah, he didn't get anywhere.

Jason Harwood: 44:03

And I think at that point they decided this is not, this is not worth it. And, um, I could see the argument either way, but you know, if he runs it and they fumble it, then you're just like, why even,

Jacob: 44:14

Then you don't even get that chance, right, right.

Jason Harwood: 44:16

chance. So, you know, I,

Jacob: 44:18

Typically we don't do that. So it was just interesting to me to see them kneel like that. But, I mean, based on how the game had went, we had that fumble touchdown before and we're already in field goal range, you're right. Like, you know, let's give ourselves a chance. Let's not try to get too cute with it.

Jason Harwood: 44:32

Gibbs was just amazing on that last drive. You know, he had good runs and then they had the check down play pass. The only thing that could have, we could have ran the whole clock out. Gibbs runs out of bounds at that one point instead of. Diving after

Jacob: 44:46

yeah.

Jason Harwood: 44:47

or just kneel down. That's the only thing I would nitpick that we could have did, um, could have done any different because then they would have just had zero time. But, did a good job to get the clock all the way down. and then, you know, God, we talked about it earlier. Golf Dom and rods, this money in those last drives, fourth quarter drives. He's, you know, money down. He's going to give it to his main guy. And, um, and I just came down with it. Uh,

Jacob: 45:15

I'm gonna have another great game, too.

Jason Harwood: 45:18

Yes. Yeah. And

Jacob: 45:19

Very dependable.

Jason Harwood: 45:20

and you're a great guarantee. You were like, you were waffling between the rushing yards and you know, Amin Ra

Jacob: 45:26

Right.

Jason Harwood: 45:27

and you could have went with both, man. I should have stole one of yours. Cause I didn't

Jacob: 45:30

Right. Looks like we might get yours, too.

Jason Harwood: 45:33

It

Jacob: 45:33

When he picked off Donald, it's like, oh, we just need one more.

Jason Harwood: 45:36

I know I got it earlier. I was like, we're halfway there. Um, so Olsen brought up something interesting, you know, he thought that the lions on the kickoff were going to kick it short to waste more time, you know, and then pretty promptly kicked it out. There was no way I wanted to give them a chance to return that

Jacob: 45:54

No.

Jason Harwood: 45:55

we saw it last week with Dallas, right, right before the half, they got all the way down, got in a field goal range on that kick. If you do that there, if you give them the option to turn it, they're going, they probably had a trick play or some, some sort of gadget that they were going to try to run, um, on us. And

Jacob: 46:13

I don't think it's worth that to use those couple extra seconds, because if they are using more time, that's probably because they're working the ball further down the field. And potentially breaking one open.

Jason Harwood: 46:23

Yeah,

Jacob: 46:24

I was talking to JJ about that, so just, you know, we're gonna kick it out the back of the end zone. There's no chance.

Jason Harwood: 46:29

I

Jacob: 46:30

Craig Olsen was wrong a lot this game.

Jason Harwood: 46:32

It was, uh, especially in that last little bit. I like Greg Olson, to be honest with you. I

Jacob: 46:37

No, I do too.

Jason Harwood: 46:38

Color commentator, but, um, you know, it's hard when, you know, his team as well as we do. And, you know, those, they don't get to see these teams weekend week out. Like, you know, we could see the lions every week and know what they're capable of and, know what's normal for them. Dan Campbell is like this perfect conglomeration of. Guts and, you know, analytics. Like he just, I don't know. He marries, he marries the two very well and, and usually can read a situation very, his team very well. Like you said, Olsen was, was wrong in this game, but I still like him overall. And I don't think that Tom Brady needed to supplant him, um,

Jacob: 47:18

Right, no.

Jason Harwood: 47:19

now,

Jacob: 47:19

I think Olsen's better than Brady. We'll see once Brady gets used to a little more, but uh, we gotta talk about how the game ended though too. Because, you know, they had the whole, so, they get the ball, 15 seconds, they don't have any timeouts left, so we know, it's a tall task, um, but not unobtainable, so we had to crack down on defense, they get a 20 yard pass, uh, you know, they're running up there, it's one of those things, it really looks like that they weren't gonna have time. To the middle of the field and said, there's no way they're going to get this ball off and they don't get set, but then they do spike the ball and, uh, you know, the flag comes out. Surely that's got to be a 10 second runoff. Surely it's the end of the game. And, you know, you can see the camera, the broadcast was showing Campbell and Goff and they're talking and then, you know, they kind of start to celebrate a little bit. And then you can breathe that sigh of relief like, okay, yeah, no, we're good. And then they come out and say, well, you know, it's illegal formation, but the ball was spiked. So there is no 10 second runoff. There's a five yard penalty. How does that make sense at all? And if this has always been the rule, why does, why does anyone get in formation, run the center and the quarterback up there and let everyone else stand wherever and snap the ball? Especially then because maybe somebody will be offsides too and then it's offsetting. understand that. I didn't.

Jason Harwood: 48:39

It's stupid. And so Justin Rogers posted it in an article today that this is apparently not the first time this come up. It came up like in a Rams game before. Uh, but you're right. As long as you don't move, all you need is someone to snap the ball to someone. It doesn't even have to be the quarterback. It could be, you know,

Jacob: 48:56

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 48:56

it to Jefferson, Jefferson, the fastest guy in the team. You know, they could have just snapped it to him and spiked it. As long as no one has moving behind the line, then it dumb and it's That specific rule needs to be changed because there, you could exploit that to, like you said, that you could get, you know, if you run up there really quick and just spike it with two people and the defense is not on sides and yeah, you could have a situation where it's offsetting penalties. And then, you know,

Jacob: 49:25

And then you just get another play anyway without the five yard loss.

Jason Harwood: 49:28

right. And so it was so dumb so the ruling, so just in case, you know, you're walking, you know, you're listening to this podcast and we're talking about, you know, being set. Basically the, if they would have spiked it, it would have been a false start. Someone would have moved. That would have been a 10 second runoff because it wasn't a legal snap, but because it was a legal snap, because everyone was set. You know, even that they weren't set correctly, they were set, then that counts as a legal snap. There's a dead ball and they were spike it. There was one second on the clock or whatever. They'll get one more play again for five yards back, but it just doesn't, it doesn't, doesn't make sense because of course you would run up there and just do an illegal snap. So you could exploit the rules and it shouldn't be that way. There should be the 10 second runoff. I, I don't get it. It's not, it's not the intent of the rule. I can tell you that.

Jacob: 50:21

Right, and I think there needs to be some sort of rule in place as far as how many seconds need to be left for the ref to spot the ball. Because that's something that keeps coming up too, is where you have some games where, you know, there might be four seconds left, well it takes that ref the entire four seconds to get that ball, place it where he wants the ball, and get out of the way and give you the okay to snap.

Jason Harwood: 50:43

right.

Jacob: 50:44

then there's times like this where it's like it took him two seconds, like the ref came and touched the ball and then ran out of the way. He didn't really even set it. So it's like, how does that make sense? There needs to be some sort of set, you know, where there's not at least, you know, maybe you make it five seconds. If there's not at least five seconds to set the ball, then you don't have time to run another play unless you have a timeout, you know, in the NBA, if you don't have at least a thing, it's three tenths of a second. If you don't have three tenths, you cannot shoot the ball. It's gotta be a tip.

Jason Harwood: 51:13

yeah. And so, as soon as they made that catch, I was like, there's no way they're getting up to that line and do it,

Jacob: 51:19

Right, right.

Jason Harwood: 51:20

and so then, then they got up there and I was like, Oh my God, it's getting really close. And then, you know, they spike it. And then, you know, as soon as the reaction use that you mentioned with golf and Campbell taking off their headset, thought the game was over. That's it. I started yelling, cause I was like, it was a big win. And I was super excited. I started yelling, just being really happy. And then, you know, then it's like, Oh no, this is going to be another lion rule that we find out in the lions game. And I didn't have SOL thoughts. I didn't think that we were going to lose it, but in my head, I was like, this is something that. I know that I'd have been scared about in the past because this would have bit us in the butt, you know, the whole, you know, whatever you can go down to the litany of things that have happened to the lions. So I was, I was also really glad that they just blitzed Sam Darnold and sacked him. They didn't even get the ball, throw the ball up. It was just over right then. And like that because the initial play when we ran before that, we only rushed one guy. Like when they were at the 30, we

Jacob: 52:25

Right.

Jason Harwood: 52:26

guy and everybody was back. And I was like, I don't know if I like this,

Jacob: 52:30

I didn't either because their kicker is really good, and he can kick it from deep too, so I mean, if they made it further than that, they could have just tried to adjust and tuck her 67 yarder on us or something, so.

Jason Harwood: 52:41

know indoor stadium to, you know, you don't have to

Jacob: 52:43

Right.

Jason Harwood: 52:44

or whatever,

Jacob: 52:45

Yeah. I mean, 3 plus years ago, if that happens to us, I'm gonna place a bet on that Hail Mary landing, just because that's the kind of things that used to happen to us. This year was different. And as you know, Trevor, no ASCII, good job. SAC and Donald didn't even let it happen.

Jason Harwood: 53:00

I read something in one of the articles I read today that, um, AG told Anzalone that they always do that and they've gotten a sack each time. And so I think you're right that, you know, that's just the play, you know, put pressure on the quarterback. You know, maybe it's different if it's at like the 30 or something like that, where you don't have to hail Mary at maybe, maybe it's different. I'm not sure. But from that far back, you know, they got a hat, you got to have four or five seconds that then for them to get set up, um, you know, and I don't want to hail Mary back there with Justin Jefferson. And because.

Jacob: 53:33

Right.

Jason Harwood: 53:34

you know, he's made some crazy catches in his career and I don't want to give him the shot of Of pulling down an amazing one. So I was glad to see him blitz

Jacob: 53:43

For sure.

Jason Harwood: 53:45

We don't need to get really into too deep into this hutch, but I just want my quick question to use, do you think the lions make a move before the trade deadline for someone?

Jacob: 53:55

Do I think they do, or do I want them to? Because I've already answered the, well, we had differing opinions about that before, but I, before this game, thought, yes, we need to make a move, we need to do it now. And then I think that's only, you know, it's weird because, you know, this was a huge win, but we did that kind of in spite of the defensive line play. It wasn't, you know, that everyone stepped up and we had a good showing. We did it in spite of that. And obviously, you know, this is against one of the better teams that we have. I just don't know how you wouldn't make a move. I know we don't exactly, I don't like the idea of having to trade multiple first round picks. I'm okay with like a first, second, third spread out over the next couple years, but if, if you trade two first round picks and that gets you max Crosby, I think that you have to do it. The window is now. You know, we, we have the team right now. We're missing that piece, especially if you get Max Crosby or somebody that's already locked under contract, because then you have them with Hutchinson next year too. Which is insane. And if you think about it, I mean, based on how the season's going now, based on how the team we have that first round picks going to be towards the end of the first round, right? Holmes, you know, we, we've been very good in drafts. So if that's all you have is a second, maybe you have a second, third round pick this year, next year, you only have your first, you give them the second, third, next year, maybe you trade around and do whatever you can value wise. But I just, I mean, there's no hole on the team right now that we need to look towards a draft. The only positive about keeping those draft fakes is getting those players, hoping you hit on them, and then hoping that we have those, uh, contracts for the next few years. Because that's what you want. You want to hit on the draft fakes, and you want to get those lower contracts so you don't have to have them count against the cap as much. But, I mean, with where we are right now, I, you know, how are you not calling Vegas? And if they're not asking for 3 first, or if they're not asking for something obscene like that, you gotta pull the trigger. And I think it's more likely, that's what I'm wanting, I think it's more likely that we go with a lesser, I know Zadarius Smith's name has been come up a few times, uh, Landry I think, there's, there's other guys out there that are not going to cost you as much, I think that's probably the route that we're going to take.

Jason Harwood: 56:18

I agree. I, Zadaria Smith is probably, you know, if I was, that's the odds on favorite, I would think for coming to Detroit. Crosby, who's my heart wants, although, You know, I think that you're going to be given up signing of our draft picks, uh, with just because of the cap situation, you know, we're gonna have to re sign branch in a couple of years, you know, Kirby's going to be coming up, you know, Laporta, Gibbs, all those guys at some point, you want those high draft picks to just kind of replace some of that talent,

Jacob: 56:53

Right.

Jason Harwood: 56:53

keeps going up, so, you know, they could do crazy things with this cap. So, you know, Brad Helms can make it happen. You get max in here and, you know, we're already the number one NFC, the Super Bowl odds would increase dramatically from where they stand right now. If we got max in here. Um, and like you said, then we'd have max next year with Aiden and, you know, you already

Jacob: 57:15

That's unreal.

Jason Harwood: 57:17

and you have DJ reader that is, if that isn't the top defensive line in the league, I don't know what.

Jacob: 57:22

Right.

Jason Harwood: 57:23

be, that would just be on, on unreal. So yeah, I don't know. It's a little bit of mortgage in the future for unknown, what's going to happen in the future to get max unknown quantity. Usually I want known things over unknown things. But with Brad Holmes, his draft picks turned to gold. And so my, my joke that I've made is that we only give up one first round pick for max, but Brad Holmes has to make the pick for the Raiders. And so therefore it's going to turn into an all pro. So it makes it worth it. That'd be the only caveat that we would have that, you know, they get, uh, the Intel from Brad on who they should pick. Uh, but. My bet is they do make, they're going to make a move. I don't think it's going to be a huge splash. I don't think we're going to get miles Garrett or Max Crosby in here. I mean, miles Garrett is probably going to be floated out there. Um, just because, you know, John Watson got hurt and we'll see, um, how that situation with the Browns. I think the Browns might be willing to um, but they're going to want to King's ransom for someone like miles Garrett for sure. Um, Josh Hands, Alan from Jaguars, maybe. Yeah, maybe out there too. Um, I'm sure there's other players that, you know, will come open, especially, as teams get out of the playoff hunt, they might, more things might be opened up, um, you know, closer to the deadline, which is I think November 6th, so it's coming up a couple of weeks away.

Jacob: 58:57

And you see, you know, they're talking to Max Crosby, though, and he kind of let slip. He was like, wherever I'm going to be, I'm, I'm here to win.

Jason Harwood: 59:04

Yeah.

Jacob: 59:05

However, he worded that was basically like, you know, It's not guaranteed that that's where he's going to be.

Jason Harwood: 59:10

Yeah, well, before it was like, I'm a raider for life. And so when,

Jacob: 59:14

Right.

Jason Harwood: 59:15

that opened the door to it, that he's thinking about going to somewhere else. And, and Max obviously has Michigan ties, going to Eastern Michigan, he, um, had said in a previous interview on a podcast, if he could play for any other team, he'd want to play for the lions.

Jacob: 59:30

Right.

Jason Harwood: 59:31

If Max came here, the hype around this team would be, it's already high, it would be off the charts if Max comes here.

Jacob: 59:42

Right. Right. that's the ultimate. I think Max would be ultimate number one. Miles Garrett, number two, although Miles Garrett has a lower cap, lower contract right now, I believe, too. So they've got that going for him. But you're right. I think Cleveland, with how bad they butchered the Deshaun Watson thing, they really need draft picks. So they're going to try to get anything they can if they're giving him up.

Jason Harwood: 1:00:07

Yeah, it's just hard. You would any rebuilding you'd want to have miles Garrett there, but then you come into the window is, is he going to be too old by the time you know that they've reloaded with their draft picks. So, all right, well, I think we need to wrap up, hit our great guarantees. We talked about them earlier. You said the lines would rush for over 125 yards. over 140. So you hit

Jacob: 1:00:31

Nailed it.

Jason Harwood: 1:00:32

I only got, I wanted two interceptions, very close. Uh, Amik Robertson almost had one and, uh, late, but Branch got one. So I just had one, uh, but I'll take it. We won and, um, yeah. You know, it's all good. huge win for the Lions. So excited. Would you, if you had a rate, what is compared to a regular season win in the last couple of years with this rate on, you know, your scale of regular season wins?

Jacob: 1:01:05

Ooh, that's tough. Cause you know, it's a huge win, but it's also earlier in the season. I don't, you know, it's weird because that, that Packers win at the end of the year was really huge and felt like a really good win for us, but it was also, we already knew the playoffs were over. So I don't have a very good answer for that. What about you?

Jason Harwood: 1:01:23

it's a Kansas city game just for

Jacob: 1:01:26

one.

Jason Harwood: 1:01:27

the week one last year, opening the season, it just, uh, reaffirmed that the lions are real. Um, and I felt like the same thing here that I don't think anyone was discounting the lion so much, but I had heard, you know, that like, Oh, the Vikings are going to be Kings of the North and, you know, they're undefeated, you know, they ran into lions. It was a huge win where a division win on the road. Um, you know, It was awesome and it was great. It was just reaffirming for where we're at and the way we, the way we, uh, won that game and the way we played it, I was very just proud of the team as whole. And it just, our defense is for real. Um, it's too bad that Aiden's out, but we have played really good defense and every game, except for the Seahawks game and Brian branch was out in that game.

Jacob: 1:02:18

Exactly. And that's what we said is that was the difference maker and that is the branch was gone.

Jason Harwood: 1:02:22

And so I, I really think our secondary is much better, certainly way better than it was last year, um, and it's going to get better as Tarion improves, um, I'm very, I know CD graded low and PFF this week, but I'm happy with his coverage. It's sticky. So you just tight windows, man, just tight windows. And we're just going to have to live with some of these illegal contact penalties. It's just the way it

Jacob: 1:02:47

And we're okay with that.

Jason Harwood: 1:02:49

So, right, man, huge win. Super excited about, you know, I get to go to this game on, on Sunday. I'm excited to go back, you know, see him play the Titans. It's weird place to be because it looks like, you know, we're, I think we're over, we're in double digits, uh, spread on this game versus the Titans.

Jacob: 1:03:09

Oh, yeah.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:10

uh, you know, it's a neat place to be as a Lions fan. Um, so anything else that you want to hit on before we head out of here?

Jacob: 1:03:19

No, I'm good. Just want to point out that you actually 1 more thing is that I am going to beat you this week in fantasy football. Thanks to Jimmy Gibbs.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:28

Yeah, I know. I kind of forgot you had him and I'm cheering for all of them. And then I look at my fancies. I'm like, how does he have so many points? Oh, Jumier Gibbs had

Jacob: 1:03:37

That's right.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:37

points in the first half. Cool.

Jacob: 1:03:39

Yep.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:39

all right. I'll take it, man. football, Trump's fancy football. All the time for

Jacob: 1:03:45

100 percent of the time.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:47

Um, so

Jacob: 1:03:48

Right?

Jason Harwood: 1:03:48

I'm never going to be rooting against. I mean, what I've wanted Montgomery to do better. Cause you didn't have mine on your team. Yeah. Maybe I've been

Jacob: 1:03:54

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 1:03:55

I'll, I'll take it. Um, lion's win is paramount. So, with that, we're going to take off and say, go lions.