Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast

E53: “Pride Preview” From Grit to Glory: Lions' Big Test Against Vikings (with Arif Hasan)

• Jason Harwood / Jacob Litton / Arif Hasan • Season 1 • Episode 53

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In this episode of Talking Grit, hosts Jacob and Jason preview the upcoming Week 18 matchup between the Detroit Lions and the Minnesota Vikings, a game with critical implications for the NFC North division title and playoff seeding. The hosts discuss the importance of the game, key players and injuries, and strategies the Lions need to employ to secure a win. Special guest Arif Hasan joins to provide in-depth analysis and share his thoughts on the matchup, the performance of Vikings quarterback Sam Darnold, and the potential outcome. The conversation also explores broader NFL contexts, such as potential coach of the year candidates and end-of-season predictions. As they close, Jacob and Jason make their 'grit picks' and 'grit guarantees' for the game, emphasizing the high stakes and exciting elements of this pivotal clash.

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Jason Harwood:

Welcome to talking grit. This is it. This is the big one. Jacob and I are going to preview this week 18 matchup for all the marbles. It's it NFC. Number one seed on the line. Are we going to be the division champions? Are we going to be the fifth seed? We'll figure it out this weekend. going to have a reef Hassan on. provides awesome analysis as we've come to expect with him as well as awesome conversation. I just love talking with that dude. So let's get on this Jacob. How are you feeling about this matchup?

Jacob:

NFC North. We've already seen them once. We're at home, at least, you know, a good way to finish off the season. And we're good. You know, regardless, really win or lose the, the chances that we have to go deep in the playoffs are still really high, even if we do end up falling out, which is crazy to think about that. The loser of this is going to be a 14 win team and they're going to be on the road for the first week. So then if I really needs to, you know, relook at their playoff seating, but you know, we perform well on the road, so, you know, I'm not worried about regardless of what happens, but we want the North. This is what we want. This is what we've been playing for. So I'm man, I'm ready.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, if you're a fan and I'm sure you are the lions cause you're listening to this podcast. I would not be devastated if the lions lose this game. I think we're going to win. I have faith that we're going to win this game, but say something happens and we don't we, we're undefeated on the road. We have a very strong team and if anything, the lions will take this as an another challenge and they will. Perform Dan Campbell. We'll have this team ready to perform. Don't worry about what Troy Aikman said in his broadcast about this defense. We got Alexandra Zaloni coming back. We're going to, we're going to be all right, either this week or the following week. So don't. Get your underwear in a bunch. If we lose this game, don't jump to 97 one and air all your grievances of why Aaron Glenn's socks and all this stuff. No, we're still a playoff team. We're still cool. We'll go far in the playoffs. It's just going to be a harder road, but this team is great. Based on grit and what would be more gritty than winning three road playoff games on your way to the Superbowl.

Jacob:

Absolutely. We hope it doesn't come to that, but if that's what it takes, you know, it takes more, right? Whatever it takes, we're prepared.

Jason Harwood:

Exactly. So I am jacked to go this game. It's going to be a really awesome environment. It's yeah, I, I just can't, I can't say enough about how excited I am on this game, you pulled up an interesting stat. For this, for this game. So why don't you, why don't you tell us about how big of a matchup in NFL history, this is.

Jacob:

It's the biggest matchup in NFL history, so it's actually the, it's going to break the record for the highest combined win total against two teams in the regular season. So, there has never been a regular season game with two teams combining for as many wins. So, us and the Vikings, obviously, 14 wins apiece. Breaks the previous record, the combined win record between two teams was in 2007. The Patriots and Giants combined for 25 wins. And there are 28 wins combined between us. So, that Breaks that record and obviously the Patrons and Giants game, there was not a division or anything like that on the line. So it literally does not get any bigger than this one. As far as regular season games go.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah. And when you talk about the difference between getting the first round by and then going on the road the whole time. So either you're going to be on road at home the whole time, assuming you win that first game, or you're going to be on the road the whole time. It's going to be, unless. Some weird things happened. Some big upsets. I mean, you could get a home game as a fifth seed, but not until the NFC championship game. So, God, that stat that you pull is amazing. And yeah. Okay, you can't overstate how big this game is, and it's not just because we're Lions fans. This is a historic NFL game.

Jacob:

And that is no doubt why that we flexed it into Sunday night football. It's in primetime where it belongs.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah. Yeah. We, you could see this coming as soon as that soon as the Packers lost to the Vikings, a foregone conclusion that this was going to be Sunday. There was no other game close to reaching any sort of interest or magnitude of this game. So you knew that that was going to be Sunday. to happen on Sunday, which makes you wonder why why Sam Darnold and the Vikings were celebrating so hard, you know, they, after their win against the backers, they got a tough one coming up this weekend.

Jacob:

Yeah, the job's not finished, guys. Well, we'll let them celebrate and pop champagne or whatever. But you know, we're focused on the task at hand.

Jason Harwood:

That's that's correct. Even with one day, less rest and a trip across the country. So, all right, Jacob, let's we, we know this team, we played them. We don't need to talk about their impact players. We know division rival. We've already went over that this season. But let's talk about the players that are going to be available. Let's talk about the injury report. Who showed up on the Vikings injury report today?

Jacob:

Yeah, the Vikings, they just have the notable injuries listed on here. Harrison Smith, the safety had a foot injury, but he got a full practice in. He was able to play last week. They expect him to play against us. Definitely huge for the defense to have. Running back Aaron Jones actually had a limited practice as did fullback CJ Ham. They're both dealing with quad injuries, they're calling them limited. I believe the expectation is that they're going to play. But their linebacker Pat Jones has a knee injury thanks to a vicious and dirty hit by Tucker Craft on the Packers. So he did not practice.

Jason Harwood:

But, but I thought only Kirby had vicious and dirty hits to knees.

Jacob:

Right. Kirby's the only one that goes low. Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

no, that, that was very ironic that that happened. As far as Alliance Dave Montgomery showed up on the Ninja report as expected. We're not expecting. hopefully it's the next game. Cause it'd be divisional round game, you know, assuming we win this weekend, that would be our next game. Hopefully we get them back for that, that week of the playoffs. But, you know, he did not practice. Manuel Mosley did not practice their. That's chucked up to an illness, which is going around locker rooms and schools and all sorts of stuff right now. So, yeah,

Jacob:

I'm feeling it too.

Jason Harwood:

Yes, exactly. Jacob sounds a little He's not giving us his best Barry White impression. He is feeling a little, a little under the weather. So he's being a trooper and being on here. So we appreciate that. Alexanzalone. And the evaluation period. So they're estimating a limited practice for him today. I'm hoping he's back. Dan Campbell seemed to say that we'll know more tomorrow. I feel like with a forearm injury, he could have kept in shape better than say a lower body injury. So

Jacob:

Right.

Jason Harwood:

that he'll, he'll be back. And as far as mentally he's locked in, we know Alex, what type of player he is. It's not going to take very long to him, get to get ready and go. But another linebacker was a limited limited practice as Jack Campbell with the rib. Amik Robertson was a limited practice with a calf injury. And then Khalif Raymond, which will be interesting to see if he gets activated this week was a full practice. So I'd, I'd love to see Khalif being activated for this game. Just another weapon that we have. And frankly, we've been missing some in the punt return game since he's been gone. back out there. All

Jacob:

agreed.

Jason Harwood:

right, Jacob, why don't you hit us a real quick you know, we haven't played the Vikings since week 17, where are they showing up? Stat wise right now than the last game of the season.

Jacob:

Yes, where they stand right now, Pro Football Focus has the Vikings rated as the number 7 overall team. Breaks down their offense is rated number 5. Statistically they are number 9 in points scored. They are 12th in yards per game. Fifth for passing yards, 19th for rushing yards, the defensive side of the ball, they are rated 10th on pro football focus, but they are number four in terms of points scored or points against, they are 16th and defensive yards per game 28th and passing and second and rushing.

Jason Harwood:

Yep. A rush defense is nothing to joke around with, but Jamir Gibbs kind of tore it up the last time, put a, put them in a blender. So hopefully that he can do the same here.

Jacob:

Yeah, we need more of the same amount of gives for sure.

Jason Harwood:

This is a monumental matchup just from overall rankings, stats, everything. You cannot overstate how big this matchup is. So let's talk to someone that's going to give us a lot of information. We're going to hit the break. We got a reef coming in and we love talking to him. And this is Can't miss interview. There's some really good questions. I hope you guys enjoy it. We are lucky to have this guy back on. It is Arif Hassan from Wide Left. He covers NFL there. Arif, thank you for, taking time out of this busy week. Awesome matchup. Thank you for coming on.

Arif Hasan:

no, thanks for having me. I really love, I mean, the ability to just talk about this game in particular. So I, this is going to be exciting.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, I know. When the schedule came out before the season, I was like, why are we got the Vikings the last game of the season? It's going to be us in the Packers. And. Oh, I was dead wrong and this is turned out to one of the best.

Arif Hasan:

Most of us were.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, man, you, Arif. You, you had full faith in Sam Darnold the whole, even throughout the whole process. Right. You thought it was going to go this way.

Arif Hasan:

Of course, of course. Now, I

Jason Harwood:

Of course,

Arif Hasan:

little bit higher on Darnold than a lot of people, but I think I'd be pulling a bunch of people's legs if I said I anticipated, you know, this whole deal.

Jason Harwood:

Jacob said before the season started over 4, 000 for Sam Darnold, he did,

Jacob:

I said 41, I said over 4100 is what I said, and he's already hit that.

Jason Harwood:

he called it.

Arif Hasan:

Excellent work.

Jason Harwood:

He got everything else wrong about the season. I thought Aaron Rodgers was going to do all this. No, I'm

Jacob:

That's

Arif Hasan:

Don't worry

Jacob:

no, no, no. Don't you swing that around.

Arif Hasan:

Yeah, well,

Jacob:

to be like 14 and three. So.

Jason Harwood:

I thought Kirk Cousins was going to have better with all those weapons down there. And I'd like that. And I thought that he was going to play better.

Arif Hasan:

weren't alone on that one either, man.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, I know. Uh, man, I tell you, Kyle Pitts has been a letdown for them. And, uh, no one has let down more than my son who drafted him in fantasy football. He just kept cursing him week after week. Kyle. Two points. Am I doing?

Arif Hasan:

I get it.

Jason Harwood:

All right. Let's, let's talk about this matchup first. I, last time we talked to you in week seven, you gave us the rundown that the Vikings fans always feel like the sky is about to fall, right? That's, that's what you kind of parlayed to us. How are they feeling right now going into this week 18 matchup? I know they're probably flying high, but are they still thinking the sky's going to fall or are they, they riding cloud nine?

Arif Hasan:

my sense is that there's kind of an internal struggle within all Vikings fans about this very question now, because I published a piece last week about that very thing, about the tendency of Vikings fans, like guard their emotions to cynically interpret positive seasons and stuff like that. And I, you know, my piece would basically, you know, throw caution to the wind, right? You know, make sure to like, enjoy what you can and, and, and. Put your faith and hope in this team, because this is probably the best chance you'll have in a while. This is a genuinely good team, you know, not like, cause I was not a believer in that 2022 squad, right. And I was really suspicious of the 2017 squad, right. This feels like more substantial to me. And I think that a lot of Vikings fans are having this conversation. The responses to that piece were basically like, yeah, I'm in, I'm all in. I'm going to let them hurt me. Uh, cause this is like the only

Jacob:

Okay.

Arif Hasan:

half that are like, no, I'm not letting this team do this to me again. I'm going to watch them every week. I'm going to want them to win, but I'm not going to hope I'm never going to hope. Right. And I get it. Right. Because like, again, if you're not like part of the fan base or you're skeptical, like, why are the Vikings fans saying, what was me about a 14 win team? It's really difficult to put into words, all of the Vikings history where it's been, win, win, win, win, lose, right. Win, win, win, win, lose. Like a lot of people remember the 98 season, but not a lot of people understand that this has been happening really persistently to the fan base about every seven years. I think it was Bill Simmons who wrote that no, uh, no, team? has annihilated their fan base more consistently than the Minnesota Vikings. So it's, it's a, it's a rough go because you feel weird complaining about a team that I think is like sixth or seventh all time in NFL wind percentage or something like that. Um, Because a lot of teams haven't won the Super Bowl, right? Like, why, why is it different being a Vikings fan? But I think it's, it's the, it's the getting close. It's like, you know, the reason that the, the Greeks had a myth about Tantalus is because he was always so close to getting food and water and was always just out of his reach. And I think being just out of someone's reach is, is, is a little bit more excruciating than persistently losing. Although, hey, maybe the Lions are gonna give us a good test case. You know, either way, I don't know.

Jason Harwood:

Oh, man. All right, Jacob, go ahead.

Jacob:

Uh, yeah. So next question that we have after last week's win, you know, you have the locker room celebration from the Vikings. Why do you think the Vikings celebrated last week's win so much? Was there something extra at play or was it just, you know, keeping the one seat alive? Was there anything behind that?

Arif Hasan:

Um, so I think some of it was, um, and I think it's the same reason that I chose last week to write that piece instead of this week. I think some of it was just, it, it felt like they had kind of arrived, like, you know, beating a good divisional opponent once, you know, A lot of people can do that, right? Uh, uh, a six win Raiders team beat a Patrick Mahomes Chiefs, right? That can happen once, but having that happen, um, twice in a season is a good indication that like, dude, you've got it. Right. You've got it. And I think a lot of this is like, we're, we're hitting kind of this stretch of play from Sam Donald in particular, that I think really affirms the approach, um, that the Vikings took this off season that affirms the faith that Kevin O'Connell specifically had shown in him. Um, and so I think it's like, Hey, this is the Vikings biggest rival. Um, you know, that's like a big part of it. This is a known good team, right? We're going to keep playing them again and again and again. And this is a quarterback that no one believed in that put together another astounding performance, right? Because you put a perfect passer rating, well, it was nearly perfect passer rating game, you know, a couple of weeks ago against bad defense. Like that's good. It's really hard to put up like a one 57, no matter who you're playing against, it's still the NFL. That's good. Right. But, but, but that game. I think it was like 119 passer rating and I'm not a huge passer rating guy, but I just think it's it's like a nice everyone kind of grasps it. Um, but if you get 119 passer rating 112 or whatever it was with a pick That's like really hard to do you throw a pick and you still get 110 plus passer rating. I mean he had A lights out game. So I think it's the combination of this being kind of this really heated rivalry one that you know On a specific scale is like back and forth. They're nearly 500 against each other or something like that. But on a global scale, it's like the Packers have like 13 championships. Yeah. You know, ask any Packers fans. They'll remind you. Right. Um,

Jacob:

Okay.

Arif Hasan:

you know, the Vikings, by the way, by their accounting method, the Vikings and lions do have NFL championships, but for some reason, when you bring that up, they don't count them, but,

Jacob:

Right.

Arif Hasan:

Um, but you know, the Packers have all these rings, the Vikings, it's on a global level, it feels like, you know, there's one sided rivalry. And so to have that kind of win in this moment, in this season where people don't know whether or not to believe in the team, I think is a big part of it. Obviously the importance of keeping the one seat alive is, is a component. I think, um, you know, making sure that, you know, you've got the winds rolling and stuff like that. That's an, that's an important component, but obviously, you know, You know, the big regular season game is next week. So why, why is it this week? And I think a lot of it is just all of these other emotions that have come into play that culminate late in the season.

Jason Harwood:

All right. I want to stick with Sam Darnold here, Arif. This is probably the highest stakes game that he's ever played in. This will probably be the most hostile environment he's ever played in, at least in my opinion. How do you think he's going to handle it this week?

Arif Hasan:

Uh, beautifully. Uh, I've, I've come to trust the guy, right? Uh, and man, like, again, I was higher on Sam Donald than most people, which means I was least wrong, I think is maybe the best way to put it. Among among a group of people, right? Which is like, hey, I think he might be able to put up some like, you know, average ish play if, you know, if things go the right way. Um, because I was really enthused by what he did in his final six games with Carolina. I thought that he did all right actually in San Francisco. And, you know, I believe in Kevin O'Connell as a quarterback developer and the things that I saw and believed in, I didn't see or believe enough. And so now I'm not going to commit that error. I think this guy's good. Um, and I think that when you compare him to other fluky quarterback seasons in Vikings history, that includes like the Case Keenum 2017 season that I never believed in, I mean, I was having fun watching it, but I felt like the bottom would fall out at some point. The reason that this feels different to me is that Donald is, he's operating the offense, like Case Keenum would not. Do that. He would, you'd scramble and make, I mean, they're really great highlights, but the, you wouldn't operate within the confines of the offense. It relied a lot on receivers having a ton of contested catch wins. You know, he's throwing blind a lot. He had an insane sack rate, something like on 2 percent of pressures for a good chunk of the season. He had,

Jason Harwood:

Um,

Arif Hasan:

pocket? Do you perform well on unblitzed downs? Do you perform well on first and second down? Not just third down, you know, sustainability marks that other quarterbacks that had really good seasons don't meet, right. If you're only good under pressure, you're probably not going to sustain that like Case Keenum, if you're only good on third down, you're probably not going to sustain that like Carson Wentz, right. Which is. It's difficult to call it a fluke season injuries, but like the point is that when we take a look at historically, you know, one off seasons that weren't marred by injury, that these are the indicators that like, Oh, you overperformed a high leverage downs that don't really tell us a lot about the future. And Donald is doing all of the things statistically. and second down, clean pocket, unblitzed, you know, standard dropbacks, normal routes, you know, within two and a half seconds, whatever stable measure you want to use, he's doing really well there. And then he's also doing well in some of the other unpredictable measures, like he's performing really well under pressure. He's averaging 10 yards and attempt against the blitz, the best in the NFL, I think. Um, know, there's a bunch of stuff there. And then you take a look on the film and you see it, you see really subtle pocket management, small moves in the pocket stuff that people praised. Like I'm not comparing him to Brady, but he's like the avatar of like subtle pocket movement to avoid sacks. And like, you see kind of what that looks like with Darnold. And then you also see dramatic pocket movement. He does a really good job scrambling to get out of sacks and turning those into plays. You see really good arm strength, which I realize, you know, talking to a Lions fan base that's seen Matthew Stafford, like, you know, it's, it's not that good. it's a pretty strong arm. Right. Um, and, and, um, you know, I'm used to Kirk Cousins who had an underrated arm, but certainly these are not in the same universe of, of strong arm. He's accurate too. And, um, you know, I think a lot of us see like some of these highlight catches and you're like, well, that's not really an accurate throw. And it's, not, but I think from down to down, he's been really accurate turning in like really good ball placement, generating a lot of yards after the catch for the receivers and stuff like that. Um, Um, and so all of the, all of the film traits that you want in a quarterback, you know, are there, is he overly aggressive? Like, yeah, he's going to make a stupid decision here or there. That's what he does. Um, but again, I'm talking to a fan base that saw Matt Stafford for a while. It works out mostly like you want a guy who's going to take a big shot. One pick three touchdowns. Yeah, I'll take it. So that's kind of, that's kind of where you're at is that you get. One or two stupid plays a game and then you get like four or five wild plays. And that's like, yeah, I I'll bounce that checkbook any day, you know?

Jacob:

Right.

Jason Harwood:

let's stick with Sam Darnold. Okay. We're going to jump to the off season. We're going to skip this awesome, this awesome game that we have. Come skip the playoffs week one next year. I'm going to give you four. I'm going to. I'm going to give you four multiple choice options. Who's your week one starter for the Vikings? Sam Darnold, JJ McCarthy, Daniel Jones, or the field. Someone else that's not on the team already. Who, if I gave you that choice, who would you pick?

Arif Hasan:

Uh, well immediately it's like the, if I'm doing this millionaire style, I'm crossing off, uh, the field and Daniel Jones. It,

Jason Harwood:

Okay.

Jacob:

Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

race here. Yeah. Um, which by the way, I really like the way the Vikings have handled the Daniel Jones thing. Like, is he going to be good? I have no idea, but you know, the off. got turned Josh Dobbs into like a pretty good looking quarterback for three games. I just, like, do whatever you

Jacob:

Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

man, I trust you. Um, but, uh, uh, between, um, Darnold and, uh,

Jason Harwood:

You

Arif Hasan:

and you hear me talk about how actually it's sustainable. It's not like a case kinemeter, and You think, what the heck, man? Like, why wouldn't it be Sam Donald? And I think there's a couple of reasons for that. One is that This was kind of the promise the Vikings made. And you know, teams don't keep promises. It's a business. You change your mind. Right. But I think it's, it is one motivating factor, right? Is that they, they're like, Hey, we're going to make you a lot of money. You're going to, you're going to help teach this rookie quarterback, which turns out you wouldn't be able to as much as you like, cause it got injured. But you're going to teach this rookie quarterback. And you're going to play well and you're going to sign a multi year contract somewhere else for a lot of money and a lot of security. And that's great. And this season is going to be about getting Sam paid. And a lot of players have said that too. We want to get Sam paid, which I, I'm just kind of heartwarming too. Right. Um, is that's like one. And then the other is like the Vikings made plans cap wise with that in mind, you could always change your plans. You have to be adaptable, but they made plans with the understanding that they would have a rookie quarterback under contract and, you know, throwing another 50 million contract or whatever Sam Donald, you know, ends up producing is really going to change that. And again, sometimes you have to change, so that's not a dispositive thing either. Uh, and then also the amount of belief that this team has in JJ McCarthy kind of stuns me. Like I've been around this team a lot through a lot of quarterbacks and I've been able to talk to people inside the organization about their quarterbacks. And I got to tell you, did not believe in Christian ponder privately as much as they did publicly. Right. Which shouldn't come as a shock given how that all turned out,

Jacob:

uh, um,

Jason Harwood:

Okay. I think we're just gonna stop at that. Okay, so. Coming out of that round, it's gonna be in these upper areas in the middle. Okay, so for taking the time and being here with us during these Happy Thursday. Thanks for joining us.

Arif Hasan:

he is. And we trust that those intangibles are going to produce the results that we want to see, but they were under no illusions that the 2015 or 2014 seasons heralded a high level quarterback. They just assumed, uh, that he would, you know, You produce that along the way as part of the process. And I think he was on the way. So, you know, I think that's fine, but, you know, I, I, I was here with the head, like I said, Donovan, NAB, and some other veteran quarterbacks that they brought in in the amount of faith that they have in JJ McCarthy is. Outstanding. Like they, they've been blown away at every step of the process by what he's been able to do on the practice field, like before he got injured, of course, and how quickly he's picking up the offense and stuff like that. And I think that they're going to take the chance that the Packers took with Jordan love, right. And just let a really high caliber quarterback walk away. And I think the Packers risk was greater than this risk because. You know, Aaron Rodgers is coming off back to back MVP seasons and you let him walk. And Jordan Love has been sitting for a while and he actually didn't look all that good, uh, when he finally saw the field. And so you had more negative evidence than the absence of evidence like you do with McCarthy. So I think that was a bigger risk, but I think it's a pretty good model for the kind of risk the Vikings will want to take here. And I think, look, if Donald ends up in the Super Bowl, he doesn't have to win it, but if he ends up in the Super Bowl, I'm changing my answer. But I think, I think it's, it's going to be McCarthy.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, it's an interesting question. Well, both Jacob and I are huge Michigan fans, as you can imagine being from the state that we're in. So, uh, we're conflicted. We want JJ to succeed, but we do not want, uh, him to succeed with in purple.

Arif Hasan:

So yeah, so if they, so if they extend time, Donald and trade McCarthy, that's like the ideal scenario, huh?

Jason Harwood:

Yeah. Yeah. That's not going to happen. And I, I'm, I, I. an interesting, um, especially for the NFC North. I'm really interested to see how that whole thing develops this offseason. know, and there's still a lot of this season to, you know, to help determine that depends on how far the Vikings go or whatever. But, uh, yeah, I'm curious about that. Okay. Great. And then I'll let you next

Jacob:

mean, you take Kevin O'Connell and you give him a rookie quarterback with like the right mindset, all the talent and tangibles and everything that you want. And then you have like that. What you think is going to be the perfect mix and just make him into a.

Jason Harwood:

speed

Jacob:

You know, a super quarterback

Jason Harwood:

going to be

Jacob:

It looks like it's going to be great. So

Jason Harwood:

finally But before that,

Jacob:

I can see why they like him so much and why they, you know, really want to go all out for that.

Arif Hasan:

for sure.

Jacob:

Um, next question though, do you think as of right now that Kevin O'Connell is the coach of the year, or do you think that's, uh, that title's up for grabs this week between him and Dan Campbell,

Arif Hasan:

Yeah, you know, if the lions win, because it's, I mean, they're basically the two favorites. They've been the two favorites for like three, four weeks now, right? Um, yeah, if the lions win, that might shift the odds back. So that's something that's kind of curious. Um, I would say, and so I think, so I think the way that a lot of people talk about coach of the year is in, Is headed in the right direction, but it's not complete. And what I mean is a lot of people have been comparing the preseason win expectation to the total wins, which means good coaches can only ever win once, right? Because then they're, they're, they're preseason win expectations are just going to remain high. So it's impossible for them to win, which sucks. But B doesn't take into account circumstances like. You know, the Vikings had with, uh, under Mike Zimmer with Teddy Bridgewater, where he's like knee blew up and it's like, well, it's the preseason, when expectations relatively high and a new quarterback comes in or the situation's like this year's lions, or they've like 18 or whatever players on injured reserve. Like that, I think is something that preseason, when expectations are captured. So I think. We're headed in a good direction because I think it's how good do you think this team would be with an average coach versus how good are they now is actually probably the way to take a look at coach of the year and the closest we can get or well, what, how would the season have played out? Right. And so, um, it's fair to put Dan Campbell in the conversation, despite this, like, yeah, they've only slightly overperformed versus the Vikings massively overperforming the preseason win expectations. Um, I would say that. O'Connell's work with Sam, Donald really recommends him well. And I would put him there regardless of who wins this game. but I wouldn't like begrudge Campbell winning that. And, um, I think finding a way to keep that defense, not just. Like treading water, but like consistently physical and aggressive as you cycle through free agents. and find like finding out Campbell guys, particularly in free agency. Right. It's like, these guys really want to hurt people in a good way. Right. Um, really want to like lay the wood. Right. Um, and, and like enthusiastically approach football with a passion. I have some questions about whether or not that technically applies to Zedaria Smith, Who cares? He's good. You know? Right. So, um, uh, so like, I think like part of, like, I think that is, uh, an important element of that. And so it wouldn't bother me or anything like that. I wouldn't say that there was like some injustice involved, but I would think that were I to cast a ballot and of course the Vikings closer than I'm covering any other team. So there's some bias there, but I, I would give it to, um, I would give it to O'Connell just because of the way that, you know, we saw Sam Donald's, you know, career turn around with the result of this outstanding season.

Jacob:

Yeah. I feel like O'Connell pretty much already has that locked in. Just because the coach of the year is kind of like how they treat the MVP award where it's like The MVP award goes to the quarterback having the best season on the best team You know if it was literally just about the best team or the best, you know stats, you know You got the whole Lamar versus Josh Allen thing this year but the coach of the year historically is kind of just the team with the most improbable season and kind of like, you know, They're having the most outstanding, they're doing things that weren't expected. And I think that's where obviously with the Vikings have been able to do and what Kevin O'Connell's been able to do with Sam Darnold. Regardless of whether they win or lose the division. I mean, most of the coach of the year winners are not division winners anyway. So I just don't think

Arif Hasan:

Oh, done your research, man. I did not know that. That's a, that's a really good point.

Jason Harwood:

I think, or if you made up a great point, you know, it's usually based on preseason expectations, which is a really poor way of looking at things because, you know, that's a bunch of us not, you know, experts or whatever, And that's traditionally. I think it's an interesting thing. We thought Kevin, you know, the Vikings were going to have a down year. That's what we thought. Um, we thought the lines were going to have a good year. But you're right. They've had, the lines have had all these unexpected injuries, huge injuries, like Hutchinson and all that. And Dan Campbell's. uh, Been able to produce, you look something like Cal Shanahan, who's went through a lot of injuries, his team didn't make the playoffs. So, you know, it's hard, you know, a lot of it's a guessing game, but I think this is an interesting test case. And all right, where do we want to put it in to someone that overseeded expectations based on the preseason or someone that fought through adversity during the season or made key decisions? You know, Dan Campbell was getting a lot of talk about being gutsy or whatever, going forward on fourth down that could play into it too. Because a lot of those have worked out for the Lions. A lot of people like the second guess those decisions, but you know, you got a team that's 14 and two. I think he's doing a good job.

Arif Hasan:

that's for sure. Thank you.

Jason Harwood:

All right. Let's stick with some head coaches. I know you cover more than just the Vikings. Um, are there, you know, how many head coaches are we going to see gone on Monday or, and you know, is there anybody still fighting for a job or all these decisions already made?

Arif Hasan:

Oh, man, um, I think that to answer that second question first, I think that there are people still fighting for a job. I think we're not necessarily going to um, everybody who is on the hot seat, you know, today be on the hot seat on Monday. I think like a win here that could help some people, but I mean, I think we're not seeing Jacksonville Uh, Las Vegas, I'm curious about the Giants prop, probably not, but it wouldn't shock me if they like gave him another chance with another quarterback. But you know, that could be interesting. Um, I think, I think the Patriot, I think Mayo keeps his job. I think McCarthy keeps his job. I know that's, I saw like some people tweet about Zach Taylor and I get it, but I, I don't think that he loses his job. So I think a lot of the firings that. That we were going to see, we've already seen midseason, including improbably, you know, the bears, right? That finally fired someone midseason. but I think like, yeah, like I think we're going to see maybe two more, maybe three more black Monday firings, but I don't, I don't think we're going to see like a ton of them. Like, sometimes we see like a third of the league get like Monday

Jason Harwood:

Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

that. but I think a lot of the, there's a lot of the coaches that were going to be let go, got let go, like, you know, Um, New Orleans or New York or, you know, the Chicago.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, selfishly, with our coordinators being out there, I'm hoping there's not a lot of openings out there. Just reduce the chance that we're going to lose one of those guys.

Arif Hasan:

That's fair. But also it seems like, uh, Ben Johnson's extremely judicious about which ones he wants to pursue. And I don't know that any of the ones I named are golden opportunities. So, um,

Jason Harwood:

I think that I think New York's out and Chicago's out just based on ownership. In my opinion. That's the way I see it.

Arif Hasan:

yeah. I think, uh, and if ownership is important, then if we do see that, like really unlikely, in my opinion, scenario that Zack Taylor's let go, then even though Cincinnati has a great quarterback situation, I think the ownership, Is probably a concern, not as big a concern, right. As some other ownership situations, but is probably a concern for somebody who is extremely, extremely discriminating on this, like Ben Johnson.

Jason Harwood:

McCarthy goes, he's not going to Dallas. I don't think he's gonna want to be in that circus.

Arif Hasan:

Yeah, that's fair.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah. All right, Jacob.

Jacob:

All right, uh, next question that I wanted to ask, um, kind of a popular debate this week, I guess, from your perspective, do you view Amon Ross St. Brown as a diva receiver? Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

Oh man. I saw that tweet go around and I saw the, I saw the quote tweet go viral too. That was like, absolutely. Um, so I don't like super love the term, I guess, but

Jacob:

Yes.

Arif Hasan:

know, as, as we like, understand them to be like, probably Randy Moss, certainly Terrell Owens. Right. Right. Um, and it like of that category, you know, Des a little bit. Um, and then at the other end of the spectrum to bring it back to Detroit, Calvin Johnson, all the way at the other end. Right. Um, it's more of a diva than golden Tate, I think, but like divas, divas tough because it suggests someone who doesn't work hard, right. And Amin Ra has like a very strong personality, right? But it very, and, and he's very vocal about it, but it very much doesn't seem like, I mean, first of all, he definitely works hard. There's no question about that. Um, But it very, much doesn't seem like it is the kind of attitude that And you probably know more than I, do is necessarily detrimental to like team cohesion. Certainly as wins are piling up, that's not going to happen. A lot of DVR receivers are fine on winning teams. So the true test is like in bad circumstances. Um, but I, I think probably not in terms of the way we understand what the term is supposed to mean, but I think I get where people are coming from on that one, because. Like, is not going to endear me to your listeners. I personally find him annoying. um, so so if that's, if that's the criteria, yeah, sure. Uh, but I don't think that's what people are supposed to try and communicate when they say that. So, you know,

Jason Harwood:

I, for my part, we, we asked the

Jacob:

Hello, everyone.

Jason Harwood:

Cause it, um, I don't know what podcast, I think it might've been the pride of Detroit guys, Morgan or something said that whenever he, you know, Amin Ra does a first down, he takes whatever the other

Jacob:

Yeah. Yes.

Arif Hasan:

loves to get under people's skin. Um, and, uh, and I think it was a, he and Odell who fought, right. Uh, and then Cortland Finnegan specialized in getting

Jason Harwood:

Oh, yes. Okay.

Arif Hasan:

it always had that reputation of getting under people's

Jason Harwood:

Okay.

Arif Hasan:

the reason people dislike Terrell Owens is because he hurt his team with whatever he was doing. Right. And, um, he was very much, and you know, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know the guy, so I'm speaking entirely in terms of perception, but like it very much looked like he cared much more about his personal wellbeing at the expense of other things that are happening, cared much more about getting his targets in his yards and the team winning. And I do, I would do want to say there's a difference between perception and reality here. Stefan Dix got, got this label and Stefan loved getting targets, but he didn't really complain after wins. There's only after losses that he talked about

Jacob:

Okay.

Arif Hasan:

of like, where I just put like golden Tate on Amon Ra, right. But I think in terms of like. Having strong personalities that people have strong reactions to, like if that's the spectrum. Yeah. Like I think that instigator is really good. A really good name for that kind of category of player. Cause it's, it's annoying as hell, man.

Jacob:

Yeah, I think that's why they're kind of just like using, because the term diva, like how you just said it with trailer ones and everything's putting yourself above the team and you care more about your targets and stuff versus the wins and losses. And that's definitely not how I'm in rise. I mean, he's got times where he's only targeted four or five times, only a few catches, you know? Isn't definitely not on the sideline in Ben Johnson's face. You're never going to see him, you know, tell him, give me the ball or throwing his helmet off or anything like that. But I do think that people, uh, view him as unlikable. And that's probably why, you know, all the diva talk is coming and he's got his own podcast now. So now it's, you know, He's more out there, more vocal, you know, you'd never hear Calvin, like a lot of people never even heard Calvin Johnson's voice. They didn't even know what he sounded like just because he was so just about, you know,

Arif Hasan:

Yeah.

Jacob:

work and everything. Just not any outside stuff.

Arif Hasan:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

I just thought about this question while we were talking about the almond round thing, uh, Justin Jefferson or Randy Moss. I want to know, like, if you had to pick a right now, I, if you had to pick right now, you're starting a team. And you get prime right now, obviously not Randy Moss now, but prime Randy Moss or Justin Jefferson, I don't know, whatever you want to say is prime is right now or whatever. What, what are you starting your team with? Are you starting with Randy or are you starting with Justin? I should have gave you some time

Arif Hasan:

Yeah,

Jacob:

that's tough on the spot.

Arif Hasan:

yeah, making me pick a favorite child, you know,

Jason Harwood:

oh yeah, well, sorry.

Arif Hasan:

uh, I got, I, I hate doing this. I hate doing this, but I got to pick Randy dude. Uh,

Jacob:

Yeah. Yeah,

Arif Hasan:

identify historical players as historical greats. Is a little bit greater than they were because of the benefit of memory and nostalgia. And so I don't want to say something like it's like disrespectful to compare it, especially statistically. Like, obviously you understand what the comparison comes from. Um, like can do anything, but Randy can do anything, right? Like you, you understand like the difference, like I, if I'm building an offense, um, you know, I can, I can put Justin Jefferson in any offense and he thrives. I can put Randy Moss in any offense and he thrives. you can build an offense around Justin Jefferson. Obviously the Vikings have done that. Like the part of the reason that they hold onto the ball so much is because of how much they trust Justin Jefferson to get open late in a rap concept or to, um, improvise in a way that aligns with what the quarterback sees on the field, like those are really important. So they built the offense around them. Um, but like you can. Build an offense around Randy in a way that is devastating and explosive and soul wrenching, right? Like Justin Jefferson really screwed up a lot of, a lot of defenders in the division. Right. But like Randy Moss made the Packers draft three defensive backs in a row after his rookie year. insane. So like I'm, I'm picking Randy, but that's absolutely no disrespect to Justin. Like there's not a ton of other historical receivers that I'd pick ahead of Justin. Um, Like this is how much I respect Justin Jefferson. I'm saying maybe Jerry, right? Like that's, that's where I'm at.

Jacob:

yeah.

Jason Harwood:

It's a good, uh, good problem to have if you're picking between those two, Randy and, uh,

Arif Hasan:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

Jefferson in your history. I mean, it's interesting. Does would attitude go in at all when, if you were picking that it would, You know, Gabe, say Justin gives a couple more years of, you know, what he's been doing now. I, I never were, you know, never talked to Randy. I don't know him. I mean, he had the, that label of maybe taking plays off or something like that.

Jacob:

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Arif Hasan:

um, poorly operating team.

Jason Harwood:

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Arif Hasan:

to point it out, watching it. I don't think he did.

Jacob:

Okay. Bye bye.

Arif Hasan:

I go, I go is, is more what he is like, you know, attempting to suggest and not, you know, I play when I feel like it is, is how it was interpreted. Right. And that kind of contributed to the, to that perception. And the fact that he does not look very fast when you just see him running because of how long his legs are. and how explosive like each step is he looks slow. So we always looks like he's jogging even when he's running a four, four, one or whatever. Right. Um, so I think that's part of it. Um, and I think that people assume that receivers with big personalities, Um, and I'm definitely not including Amanra on this one because I think everyone just assumes that he blocks like a demon because that's the attitude that he's given us. Um, but like, I think people assume that receivers that have that D. Va label, to bring it back to that previous conversation, don't block or take plays off or whatever, and that's not necessarily the case. Um, that sometimes these receivers that, that draw a lot of attention to themselves, sometimes they will, you know, be aggressive workers on the field on every play. And that's, that was my, my perception of Randy was that he did take plays off. And after looking over it again, when I was able to watch a couple of games and have access to some tape and stuff like that, and, you know, rereading some of these interviews in the fuller context, I think, no, um, I think the attitude is a much smaller problem, but it will say, Um, he had a lot of trouble communicating. And the, I think the media in Minnesota did, uh, did him a disservice. And I think he reacted poorly to the fact that the media didn't disservice. And I think that is on him. and so I think those attitude issues are there. I think he created a lot of problems for The Vikings in 2010. When he came back to the team, those are, those are his issues that he created. Right. So I don't want to say that these don't exist. I just think that they exist in a smaller, uh, Um, capacity than I think, given, um, given his, uh, given his attitude or given, like, the perception of his attitude.

Jason Harwood:

Okay. Good. Now, now I'm going to put you and Randy in a room and you guys will talk out here now. Randy come on the show.

Arif Hasan:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

All right, Jacob.

Jacob:

right, the last question just the if you give us a prediction on the game so does not to be the final score you know just if you had to predict something is going to happen in the game

Arif Hasan:

Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. Um, not a final score, but I do want to make a note that I think if both teams were fully healthy, the Lions probably washed the Vikings. And now that that's not the case, um, it is a much more interesting game. I think, and, and I'm stealing, um, something that, that, uh, you know, prior to Detroit reached out to me to answer five questions. So that article is coming up soon. I'm just going to steal something I said in, in my email

Jason Harwood:

You go ahead. Yeah. Um, All right. Good. Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

that at the beginning. Um, so I think we're, we're probably going to see multiple turnovers from both teams.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, a reef, uh, you've been, you've been great. Um, you don't have to be, uh, sorry for, uh, plugging the pride of Detroit boys. We have utmost respect for them and, you know, we've had them on the show. So, uh, we, uh, yeah, that's fine. Look out for that article on pride to Detroit. When's that coming out or a reef.

Arif Hasan:

I'm not sure. My impression was tomorrow morning, but to say,

Jacob:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

Okay. So maybe by the time this goes out, it might be up there. If not, you know, keep an eye out for that. And I'm, I'm sure it would be good. I'm sorry that you're not going to be at the game this week, Arif. Uh, but I'll, uh, I won't be cheering for your team. I'm going to be cheering very loudly, making, uh, false starts and all sorts of stuff while I'm there.

Arif Hasan:

Yeah, no worries, man. Um,

Jason Harwood:

Yeah.

Arif Hasan:

I can't make it out. There's a ton of people in Detroit that I actually enjoy the city a lot. I've been to Detroit a number of times, both for football and non football related reasons. And I love the food. and so it sucks not being able to travel as much. It sucks not being able to see, you know, all my friends from Detroit, but you know, hopefully I'll make it out soon.

Jacob:

All right.

Jason Harwood:

well, maybe for a playoff game in a couple weeks, you guys will be heading back into town. That's,

Arif Hasan:

Jeez. That would, yeah. Oh my

Jason Harwood:

you know, it could happen. It very well could happen.

Arif Hasan:

I, I view that as a nightmare scenario, but certainly,

Jacob:

Yeah, right.

Jason Harwood:

Well, I, I, for one, I'm like, if that happens, I don't like facing, you know, I don't like facing any team three times. And if you beat them twice, beating them three times, that's tough in one season. So, uh, But it very well could happen. So we'll, we'll see. Um, we've been talking with Arif Hasan, uh, where can they find your stuff at Arif?

Arif Hasan:

All my stuff is published over at wide left football. I've got pieces on the Vikings pieces on, um, some other NFL teams. I have, uh, slapped off a little bit on covering some NFL teams in. Or other NFL teams in the specific, but I do cover the NFL at large. So I've got pieces on that. I also do a little bit of political commentary. So if you're interested in that,

Jacob:

Right.

Arif Hasan:

And if you're not, you can skip past it. Don't worry about it. Um, and I'll have a bunch of draft coverage coming up soon. People seem to respond really well to that. So I check that out.

Jacob:

Awesome.

Jason Harwood:

So, all right. Um, well, maybe we'll see in a couple weeks a reef if, uh, you know, we get a rematch here. So,

Arif Hasan:

sure. Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

all right.

Arif Hasan:

back home.

Jason Harwood:

All right. All right. Thank you. We enjoy talking with Arif and, and we want to thank him again for showing up. So hope you guys enjoy. All right, Jacob. the best man. He is the best.

Jacob:

Absolutely. Always great to talk to you.

Jason Harwood:

Yes, he is for 100%. So before we get in the keys to victory, I want to just repeat something that Jared Goff said, and the post game locker room celebration, said, I could feel it right now. We know what's at stake next week. It's a big boy game, no champagne popping, none of that. They, they're getting, they're wanted this game. Dan Campbell wants this game. He, he, they're not scared. They're going to go in and play their, Play their hearts out. So Jacob, let's talk about this keys to victory. Let's get into this. Who, what's, what's your number one?

Jacob:

Yeah. Number one key to victory that I have here is don't start off on offense. Don't start slow, but play smart. So I think that was kind of an important focus point. The last game that we had is that we wanted to come out quick. We wanted to try to score and get ahead and play ahead. So, you know, that's the don't start a slow aspect, but we also, we ran that fake pun. It was 4th and 7th. We ran a fake punt deep in our own territory. That was not a very good decision. I didn't like that live as it was happening. And, you know, the Vikings turned that around to a quick seven points. That kind of took some of the steam out of us. We went three and out the next drive. They got a field goal. We went three and out again. I think we only had the ball for like between four and five minutes time of possession for the first quarter. But, you know, we only gave up two offensive touchdowns in that game. So the first one was just so fast and it got the momentum swinging their way. This is how we operate is coming out fast. You know, we don't start off slow. We come out fast. We put points on the board, we put the pressure on the other team. And I think that's just, it's going to be in this kind of a matchup, especially with the defense that they have and everything like that's going to be key is to get to them quickly, keep the crowd involved.

Jason Harwood:

I like where you're, I like where you're going with this for me to do that, to, be good on offense is stay ahead of the sticks. And, you know, we talked about, they have a really good rush defense. We have to find a way if we can't rush it, then we need to get quick passes to Amin Ra Laporta. We need to get in third and short and not let them unleash, you know, their complicated bit blitz scream scheme. They. I, I have full faith that J Jiragoffa is going to be able to figure that out, but I'd rather keep it in third and five or less and however, we're going to do that either short passing or, you know, effective running. So I just stay ahead of the sticks, no stupid penalties, those types of things.

Jacob:

Yeah, it's funny how, like, close statistically our defenses are, because their passing defense is rated, we say, like, 28th in yards giving up, but their rushing defense is 2nd. And then you flip it over to us, we're actually 31st in passing yards giving up, and we're 3rd for rush defense. We've actually had the fewest rushing attempts against us in the entire league. Just because it's, you know, it's not working, teams are either playing from behind or they're just abandoning it because they're having more success in the past game. So, I mean, it's kind of like a mirror image as far as you look at the stats go that way, but they have not been affected by the injuries the same way that we have haven't had to overcome quite as much.

Jason Harwood:

They

Jacob:

yeah, sorry.

Jason Harwood:

of Vikings fans will tell you the opposite that they've dealt with injuries, but no,

Jacob:

Yeah, I don't understand that. I think statistics, like, based on the starters, like, before, I want to say week 1 starters, they've lost 2, is it 2 people that they've lost?

Jason Harwood:

I don't

Jacob:

I don't understand how they, I've heard the argument too, but it just doesn't, they've had like 6 people on injured reserve, we've got 3 times as many people, and I, you know. I don't have those numbers in front of me, but I know, obviously, it's much lower than what we're dealing with, so. They also, I don't know if this bothers you the way it bothers me, but you see those things where they're like You guys are having the season of your lives, and we're just having a good year messing around with Sam Darnold. Like, you don't really, there's no way they really think that, they're just trying to talk trash.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, well, I could say that and some of that's true. I mean, we are having the season of our lives, but also like Arif said, they've been stung many times with having successful seasons in either game bounce early in the playoffs or losing and, you know, spectacular fashion. And so, know, I. Whatever in a reef, you know, we've had that conversation with the reef probably off camera too, whether it's worse to be that type of fan where you've had everything and it's given away or for us lions fans not having anything you know, and, and we're just grateful for the season that we're having. So, and they could talk trash all they want, but. Now, Jared Goff said this right, this is a big boy game and the big boys are going to come out and if you know, I got Sam Darnold on one hand and I got Jared Goff on the other, I'm going to take Jared Goff right now and in a big money situation and, you know, plus not to mention that we're at home and Sam Darnold's going to have to deal with some hostility and, you know, the crowd is going to cause them to use a timeout, false start, you know, get behind the sticks. Those type of things will happen in this game. I have confidence in that.

Jacob:

That's actually leading to my next key to victory really is just getting to Darnold. If you look statistically, when he's pressured, he actually it looks like he performs pretty well under pressure, but most of that pressure comes when it's four or five. So if we're able to utilize branch and if he. I mean, if you're AG, you've got to get pressure on him, but it's got to be unorthodox. You have to send someone from the outside where Darnold's not going to read where it's coming from. And that's when he's going to start forcing throws. That's when he's going to start making mistakes. Darnold's definitely going to try to take some deep shots in this game. They're going to try to set some things up. I just think if we get to him and don't allow him time to get through those progressions and find, you know, Justin Jefferson four seconds after the snap, I mean, it's going to be hard for their offense to move the ball.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, I don't, Sam Darnold is going to make a mistake on his own, whether we cause it through pressure or not, I just have a feeling. And I think it's going to be, like you said, we need to scheme it up. We need to confuse them. And kind of like how we did with Brock Purdy, sending a blitz and not sending the keys, you know, they. On the branch blitz, there was no keys indicator. We need to do something like that. You know, let Kirby go and make a play. Branch made a huge play in the first game. We need one of those safeties to, to step up. We, we're going to need to steal a possession here too. And that's my key to victory. Steal a possession here too, somehow, some way. Unorthodox trick play, turnover you know, we talked about this in the other episode with Morgan. need at some point, just the manual, how many stops do we need to generate? Cause our offense is going to just be efficient and score. So we just need to just steal a possession or two and stop them from scoring. And so that we could just take it, take it to the house.

Jacob:

Absolutely.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, I You know, much like for our offense that we need to stay ahead of the six. We need to stop the run. The 49ers in the last game were able to run on us a little bit. And I don't want to put a situation where Sam Darnold has a second and three or third and three, and we don't know what they're going to do. Cause it's really hard to defend in that. You're not going to be able to send, going to be harder to send the blitz. And I'd rather, much rather have, you know, third and long and, and go from there.

Jacob:

Yeah, I mean, they, they had moderate success. I would say last week you know, just a couple plays broke out here and there. And then even, even the 49ers really just completely abandoned the run and just went past first. If you look at the last game, when we played the Vikings, it was like maybe the third play of the game when Aaron Jones had that 34 yard rushing touchdown. And you know, that was a decent performance from Aaron Jones. I just don't, obviously the defense looks a lot different now, but I think this is going to be one through the air. I think there's going to be a passing contest back and forth.

Jason Harwood:

I agree, but like Gibbs over Jones and I like golf over Darnold. I, and I know

Jacob:

Yes.

Jason Harwood:

some Homer in there, but the stats prove it. And, and I like being at home with that. So it's going to be a

Jacob:

I saw.

Jason Harwood:

battle. It's going to be a very tight battle, but I think I like our advantages. Yeah.

Jacob:

Yes, absolutely. I saw a funny graphic though that it was like It showed Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and then Sam Darnold. And it was like, who's like the frontrunner for MVP? It was like, why is Sam Darnold in this graphic? I mean, any stat that you pull up there, Jared Goff, is better statistically. Same amount of wins. Statistic, like all the stats. I mean, they are pretty close. I'll give up Matt, but Jared got some better in each one and golf didn't make the graphic. So that's weird. I don't understand where that's coming from, but yeah. We just better quarterback, better running back.

Jason Harwood:

the five interception game is a blemish on the record. Even though we won the game, it

Jacob:

Right.

Jason Harwood:

Take that out in his interception numbers. Touchdown interception ratio was way

Jacob:

Ridiculous. Yeah, right. Right.

Jason Harwood:

You know. Sam Darnold's I will give Sam Darnold's had a good year. When I looked at all the breakdowns between the blitz, the non blitz pressure versus non pressure, there isn't a consistent, he he's been very good in all those categories. Kevin O'Connell has set him up and to make a lot of money next year. And he better thank his stars about that. And I, I, it's going to be a great game. It's going to be one through the air, like you said, but

Jacob:

And then that makes it, you know, where it lives and dies with Sam Darnold, because they have games where, you know, he doesn't play very well. And. They beat the Jaguars seven or 12 to seven, or they beat the bears 30 to 27 in overtime. You know, if Donald doesn't have a good game, it seems like the offense Sputters, there's not, you know, the most convincing win they had was against the Falcons, and that was the game where Donald threw five touchdown passes. So, I mean, that's really the number one key right there is if you take him out and you shut him down the offense, which I mean is true of most offenses, you shut down the passing game and then it's hard to do much.

Jason Harwood:

hmm.

Jacob:

I just don't think Aaron Jones is as dynamic as Gibbs is and doesn't have you, you know, they don't have the line that we do either, although they are playing well, and, you know, this is definitely one of those games where I think if you put these teams together, you know, with injuries and everything that we have, you put these teams together and we play 10 times, it's probably pretty close to a five and five split as who's going to win

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, as of right now, if we were

Jacob:

as of right now. Yes.

Jason Harwood:

were fully stocked in the Hutch, I mean, you had just add Hutch back, you know, let's not even

Jacob:

Yeah,

Jason Harwood:

you

Jacob:

right, right.

Jason Harwood:

We leave, leave Hutch. So let's talk a little bit about that. You know, there are, you know, defensively, you know, we've lost, you know, McNeil was in the last matchup You know, but we did, Zeitler was out of the last matchup offensively the last time. So that is going to be huge to have him back as I will. Sika was in there. He, you talk about being consistent on the offense. He killed the first two drives of the holding penalty and a false start. And that's one of the reasons those, those stuttered at the beginning. So getting Zyler back is going to be huge. On the Viking side, they, you know, didn't have TJ Hawkinson didn't have one of their offensive weapons back and, you know, be interesting. What the response with Kirby, cause Kirby is, you know,

Jacob:

Yeah, right.

Jason Harwood:

and caused them to be out that. So that's another weapon that they, that we didn't have to worry about the last time. so that'll be interesting to see how that breaks down too. And one other thing that I wanted to keep an eye on JMO is only 33 yards shy of 1000. Be shocked if he doesn't get it in this game. He might even get it on one play. So that would be that would be awesome. That'd

Jacob:

Well, regardless, we've already, you know, lions are the first team in NFL history to have two running backs and two wide receivers. Each hit 1000 scrimmage yards. That's putting his running, his rushing and receiving yards together. But yeah, to have 1000 receiving yards is a huge accomplishment

Jason Harwood:

Mhmm.

Jacob:

and you know, it's just, it's good for him. We talked about that all preseason that he just looked different. He looked like he was putting things together. It looked like he was going to have a big year and he has yeah.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, he has I think beyond just getting the yards and everything like that, he's been a consistent threat and just the trust with golf is showing in it and it showed in the 49ers game with the route running. They, I think Troy Aikman said, you know, even pointed it out, like his. You know, he's doing things now that he's hasn't been able to do in the past with, you know, just, he's not just a deep threat. He can run in routes. He can run over the middle. He can do a lot of things. Morgan and I, we talked about it, you know, and earlier about about how dangerous he's become and it's going to be an awesome, it's an awesome threat to have, and I don't know if it's going to pay, if he's going to have a deep shot in this game, I don't know, but just the threat of it is going to open up else to have, you know, to catch the ball Laporta. I'm expecting to have another big game in this one.

Jacob:

Yes, I mean, especially as of late, we've been getting Jamal the ball, where earlier in the season it was like, you know, wasn't a guarantee he might have a big play here or there, he had a couple games where he only had one or two catches or targets even, so, it's nice that we've been able to feed him the ball more consistently.

Jason Harwood:

I agree. So big game, super excited about it. Yeah, I, I know we've said it a bit, a billion times, but man, I, I am, I wish I could wake up tomorrow and I'd be going the game. So are you going to be, you're going to be watching it at home, right? Jacob.

Jacob:

I'll be watching at home, intently.

Jason Harwood:

So are you going to let Milo stay up? I know Milo has been watching the Lions games with

Jacob:

Yeah, I'm gonna leave that up to Milo. He actually stayed up, so, it was, Monday was my birthday, so we had a, you know, day of fun anyway, and then he stayed up and watched the Lions and 49ers game with me. So that was fun. He was definitely into it. I told him, you know, you probably need to go to bed, bud, and he was only in his room for a half hour or so before he came back out. I was like, you know what, fine, sit here, watch the game with me. It's fun having somebody watch the game and root for the same team, because JJ likes to trash on them.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, we at our house for the Monday night game, we had we had, my son had three friends over and they were downstairs. So there was, there was there was five boys down there watching and their stream was slightly ahead of ours. And so we, we knew when a big play was coming, cause they were going crazy. And when Kirby got, I think it was the second interception, I knew from their reaction, how loud it was that they got a turnover. I, I,

Jacob:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

Equated to like watching a baseball game, but you're not paying attention. You only hear the crowd and you know, a, large play just happened based

Jacob:

Right.

Jason Harwood:

noise. And that's the way I knew I could hear down there. I was like, that has to be a turnover. That's not just an incompletion. They, they, they picked the ball and sure enough, Kirby picked that ball. So, yeah, this is going to be an amazing night. We're blessed as Lions fans to be able to have this opportunity. I mean, we can look at it as like we're 14 wins and we don't have our division locked up. I told my son, you're scared of this team right now, then how are you going to do in the playoffs? This is what you want. This is essentially the first week of the playoffs. I know that we're not eliminated if we're out, but you got to beat the bet to be the best. You got to beat the best. So, and I don't dig Campbell saying those words to his team right now. They love this matchup. They love what they, the opportunity they have. I love that it's in Detroit. that we have the home crowd. I think it's going to pay.

Jacob:

Yeah.

Jason Harwood:

for, for this team.

Jacob:

Right. That'd be a huge difference maker for us.

Jason Harwood:

It will. All right, Jacob, let's get on with the grit picks. Jacob, got the better of me this week. So I'm gonna let you do the rundown here.

Jacob:

This week. I think it's a better of you almost every week, right?

Jason Harwood:

do, you do.

Jacob:

All right. Seahawks at Bears. I picked the Seahawks. You pick the Bears. This was funny because as we were recording as when that game was happening and we were talking about how much of you know, bad game that it had been. It was only six to three at that point. It didn't get any better. You know, that's that was the result. The Bears, you know, did not utilize their timeouts blew it there again at the end of the game. Awful football then you had picked them to win. So, you know, I don't know what you were thinking. Moving on Saturday night, Arizona at Rams. We both picked the Rams. We were right there. And then Falcons at Commanders. I picked the Commanders and you picked the Falcons.

Jason Harwood:

It's an

Jacob:

So I'm 32 and 14 and you are 27 and 19.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, you're going to beat me this year. There's no way I can come back. So in so congratulations inaugural

Jacob:

you.

Jason Harwood:

got me so week 18, not much to pick this, this week. So the first game that we're going to pick is the Saturday night game bangles at Steelers. I'm going to go with the Steelers in this one. Bangles are going to fold. Who are you taking?

Jacob:

Yeah. This one's interesting because the, the Ravens play earlier that same day, if the Ravens lose, then the Steelers are playing for that division. But if the Ravens win, then the Steelers they've already locked their playoff spot up at the Ravens win, then they don't really have anything to go for.

Jason Harwood:

Yep.

Jacob:

So they find themselves in a unique position too, because, you know, They're preparing to play as if they're playing for the division, and if they're not, do they bench anybody? Do they play the game any different? You know, whereas the Bengals, they have to win to keep their hopes alive. And, you know, they're gonna be bringing it no matter what. The Steelers came out on top the last time they played, so I think the Bengals are gonna take this one.

Jason Harwood:

We're different there. So based on how the season's gone, you can put your money on the Bengals. All right. So we don't pick the winner of the Detroit or the night football game because it involves Detroit. But to switch it up, we are going to pick an over under on something. refed, And the interview said that there's going to be a lot of turnovers in this game. So we are going to go over or under two and a half turnovers. That's combined between the two teams, Jacob, or you take it over or under two and a half turnovers.

Jacob:

I'm actually gonna take the under on this one. The stakes are much higher. I think they're gonna have to try to play cleaner football. You know, I hope that if it's the over, it's because Sam Darnold absolutely blew it and they just can't get it together. Yeah, I mean, Goffman playing really well, I don't see them putting the ball in harm's way necessarily as much as the Reef did. But, I'm gonna go under. How do you feel about that?

Jason Harwood:

I'm going to stay with you. I'm going to go under two under the two and a half. So I think there's going to be two and I'm hoping they're both on Minnesota side. But I, it's going to, that's going to be the difference makers at turnovers. And if,

Jacob:

Absolutely.

Jason Harwood:

I'm hoping if it's high, I'm hoping it's, it's equal or shades more towards the lions favor. All right, Jacob. It's time for a great guarantee. I'll let you go first. It's

Jacob:

Yeah, my guarantee is a simple one this week. 5, and I'm gonna guarantee that we go over on that.

Jason Harwood:

probably a pretty safe bet based on how the Lions defense has played lately. And we seem to always put 30 plus on, on Brian Flores over there at the Vikings. So, yeah, it's pretty good. What do you think what's, what if I said the over under was 63 and a half, would you, go over under that,

Jacob:

You know, with how we've been playing and how everything's going, I think I would still say over.

Jason Harwood:

over,

Jacob:

stakes are higher, this is, you know, it's funny because like, how we said with the bills, like the stakes are higher, you hope the defense shows out a little more on both sides and then it's gonna be like a hard fought, and instead it was just shot after shot after shot, the offenses weren't slowing down. So, I think it would look more like that game. So I would still say over.

Jason Harwood:

Okay. All right. Good. Mine is going to be an Amin Ra has 10 plus catches in this game.

Jacob:

Okay.

Jason Harwood:

is what I'm going to go with. In big games, you go to your money player, Amin Ra is the guy. And I think especially if they sent Blitz, they're going to have some hot routes set up for Amin Ra it's, It's going to be important to stay ahead of the sticks and Amun Ra is going to be the guy. So

Jacob:

He said 10 plus catches or targets.

Jason Harwood:

10 plus catches. I think he's going to have 10 plus. So,

Jacob:

It's just typically when he catches more than 10 passes, it's because we are not doing so well.

Jason Harwood:

yeah, I think it's going to be the opposite this

Jacob:

Yeah,

Jason Harwood:

yeah, I think they're going to, they're going to target Amun Ra. So

Jacob:

I hope you're right.

Jason Harwood:

our third down guy. And yeah, I, I have a feeling Amun Ra is going to

Jacob:

Amun Ra has a pretty good history against the Vikings, so I can see that.

Jason Harwood:

and that's why I kind of went that way. So, well, Jacob, I mean, hopefully Monday when we're recording next, we're very, very happy. And then we can go through a possible. scenarios of who we're going to play, if not, going to talk, we're going to know who we're going to play the following weekend and we'll get

Jacob:

And we'll be ready.

Jason Harwood:

Yeah, we'll be ready either way. So, all right, Jacob, I hope you feel better. I know you're not feeling really well.

Jacob:

Appreciate that.

Jason Harwood:

yeah. So, all right. For Jacob, I'm Jason, let's go lions.

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Jacob Litton

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Jason Harwood

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