Quick Grit Take: Unraveling the Pro Bowl Surprises for Detroit Lions Fans

The script discusses the Detroit Lions' Pro Bowl selections, a significant representation for the team. Highlighted players include Jared Goff, Amon-Ra St. Brown, Frank Ragnow, Penei Sewell, Jack Fox, Jahmyr Gibbs, and Brian Branch. The discussion emphasizes KerbyJoseph's significant performance as a safety, his Pro Bowl snub, and speculation on the reasoning behind it. Comparisons with other players, voting processes, and statistical accomplishments are examined, especially focusing on Joseph's interceptions and overall impact.

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Transcript

Jason Harwood: 0:04

right, Jacob. Pro Bowl team was announced for our Detroit Lions. We are well represented this year. This is the first time I've seen so many Lions names ever listed on a Pro Bowl sheet.

Jacob: 0:16

Exactly, usually it's like, did we make it? Did somebody make it? Like, please let somebody be on there. And now we're flooded with selections.

Jason Harwood: 0:24

Yeah, they don't have the same rule in the NFL where every team gets represented like they do in baseball, in baseball, all star games, everyone has to be represented for a lot of time, the lines wouldn't have a representative, or, we get Jack Fox in there, we get our

Jacob: 0:38

Yeah.

Jason Harwood: 0:38

you know, that, that was our, that's where we could hang our hat, So starters jerr golf well, deserved fourth selection for the pro bowl. So that's awesome. I'm in raw St. Brown. You know, he's going to make it. Although he didn't make it last year. The initial ball, right? He gets in the pro, it gets in the all pro, but doesn't get a pro ball. They made sure to not make the same mistake this time. boy, Frank rag. Now he's in pen, a soul, you know, he was going to make it. And then. The player I mentioned before, Jack Fox. He plays about half the games for Lions because, we don't have to punt. But when we do need him, he comes up huge. Who made it for the reserves, Jacob?

Jacob: 1:17

Reserves. So Jameer Gibbs, obviously very deserving, top running back in the league right now for sure. He's put up there. I don't know if you saw, they posted a statistic earlier. I think it was Justin Rogers we envision Jameer Gibbs kind of being like a Alvin Kamara type back. And, you know, it's the second season and he's already, I think it's the scrimmage yards, right? He's already surpassed the scrimmage yards from Alvin Kamara.

Jason Harwood: 1:37

Yeah, that, that Alvin Kamara has ever done. So

Jacob: 1:40

Great.

Jason Harwood: 1:41

know last year when he, uh, when Jameer was a rookie, we were hoping Alvin Kamara, thing would come to fruition and he's more than done that and what's crazy is that, splitting time for the most part when Dave Montgomery isn't hurt, he's splitting time. He's not on the field all the time, which is even more impressive that he's able to put up those stats.

Jacob: 2:03

Exactly. He doesn't have as many touches as some of these other running backs. And he's still able to do, you know, a really good job. On the reserve, first time, safety Brian Branch. Also, very deserving, very hardworking player, constantly. Just a huge part of our defense.

Jason Harwood: 2:18

Yeah, just. Yeah, getting the recognition, Tom Grousey will be all mad that he's, Packers missed on branch and we capitalized on letting him fall to us. So love having branch out there. We also had along with those seven players, which is the second most in the league, the Ravens had nine players elected, the Lions had seven. but we also had 11 players named as alternates for the pro bowl, which. Again, insane.

Jacob: 2:48

I know we mentioned it on the pod, but if you didn't hear that, but most of these guys were, you know, top 3 or top 5 in the fan vote, and that was announced just a couple days before they had the actual official, final voting results. So, I believe the fan vote was supposed to count for a third, right? They split it into three and they all held equal weight?

Jason Harwood: 3:07

Um, is it

Jacob: 3:09

That's the part.

Jason Harwood: 3:10

this before the last game of the season?

Jacob: 3:13

Yes, that's what I was just gonna say, is I don't understand. And, for the fan vote to end, and then right after that, the player and coaches vote, like, Who voted on this? When did they vote on this? Did they vote on this months ago?

Jason Harwood: 3:24

Yeah.

Jacob: 3:24

Because a lot changes towards the end of the year. Can you imagine voting on MVP like in the middle of the season?

Jason Harwood: 3:30

Well, I mean, Kirby Joseph, who we're going to talk about in a little bit, got two interceptions on Monday. When did this vote go down? He leads the league in intercept. I, I don't get it, man. let's, uh, all those questions are, uh, I guess for another podcast, but yeah, it, it floors me a little bit that we don't the whole season play out. Let's talk about this Kirby the league leader in interceptions with nine, it's not even the first alternative. The second alternative, why do you think he got left off? We'll start there. Yep.

Jacob: 4:11

perception that people have of him that he's a dirty player. It really makes me, there's two things that could have happened. We kind of just mentioned the one. Either the voting between the coaches and the players happened. A week, you know, a couple of weeks or a month ago or something like way in advance before that, you know, multi interception game, because before that he kind of was neck and neck with McKinney as far as the stats and everything went, they had the same number of interceptions, you know, it was kind of give or take maybe, you know, coaches and players are voting. They're like, Hey, there's a lot of lions in here. Packers need represented. We'll put McKinney in here. Who knows if that's how that conversation went. But the other thing is just the perception that he. Is a dirty player. And you know, when you see that, that's all the Twitter rage and everything that's going on right now. That's really the only thing that I, the only argument that I see being made against him is just that he's a dirty player, right? I mean, that's, you know, you put any stat line that you can think of out there and he absolutely deserves a pro bono nod and he really should be in the defensive player of the year running. I feel like he is. I know he's not, uh, you know, being a public name, he's not one of the betting names right now, but. You know, the stats speak for themselves and nobody can, nobody can defend Xavier McKinney starting over him without mentioning the perception that he's a dirty player and he has one penalty this year for unnecessary roughness.

Jason Harwood: 5:33

Yeah. And that was just this past week, uh, for protecting Terry and Arnold. It was after the play and it wasn't a dirty hit or anything. He just

Jacob: 5:41

Right,

Jason Harwood: 5:42

shoved them. And,

Jacob: 5:43

right.

Jason Harwood: 5:45

yeah. I get with that. When you look at his. He was doesn't hit people in the helmets. I know, I know the thought is a, it's a dirty player. Cause two players went out with these I, those things happen like low hits happen all the time. You don't want to hit people high because you don't want to give them a concussion. And so you hit them low and Kirby's not the biggest guy. The two players that he did cause knee injuries to were big tight ends, huge tight ends. He's not going to come in and hit them. He's got to hit them low to get them down. It just happened that he caused that a knee injury happened. But the, I think that that's more of coincidence that those cause knee injuries and not something that he's trying to do.

Jacob: 6:33

Yeah. I mean, even when he returned the interception, he got hit low and he got flipped up to that's, that's a football play. I mean, that's how a tackle works. And you know, it's harder for the receiver maybe to get ready for it when they're catching and turning around, but at the same time, you can't get ran over, and that's kind of what the NFL wants. You don't want to go low, you want to go for their hips, or below, you want to drop down. It kind of was just the perfect storm, and it's just really unfortunate that it happened twice. But there was no way, you know, even if Kirby thought, like, I'm gonna take this guy's knee out, it's not that easy to just lay a perfect hit with your helmet on somebody's knee, that's not what he was going for.

Jason Harwood: 7:09

I think another thing that couples in there is just what Stafford, was miked up and basically called out Kirby after the, after, he hit the tight end for the Rams and they, basically said, I've seen you on tape, you're a dirty player. And I think the general public ran with that and, then it's all the rage on. On social media, which is unfortunate because Kirby's having an amazing year. He deserves this recognition. So talk about it. What, what stats you got to back up your claim that Kirby should be taken over Xavier

Jacob: 7:40

got all the stats. So these are all provided from Pro Football Focus. Some of them are ratings, but some of these are actual statistics as well. Xavier McKinney was voted the starter for the Pro Bowl. The first alternate was the Atlanta Falcons Jesse Bates. And then you have Kirby Joseph, who is the second alternate. So just right from the jump, their pro football focus grade, Kirby leads with a 90. 7, Xavier is 87. 1, Jesse Bates is 81. 3, Rush defense, actually Xavier McKinney is last of these three with a 69. 4, uh, Jesse is 84. 9, Kirby is 82. 6, and then the coverage grade, Kirby's 91. 5, Xavier 90. 4, Jesse 80. 8. So of the pro football focus ratings, which I know those you can kind of give and take or whatever, I mean, Kirby leads in two of them and he's second in one. So, you know, like I said, pro football focus, give or take, whatever. But I mean, if we're gonna break down, here's the stats, okay? Missed tackles, Jesse Bates has 14 missed tackles. Xavier and Kirby both have five a piece catches allowed. Kirby's allowed 16 catches Xavier, 23, Jesse, 27, um, interceptions. We already know that, but Jesse's got six. Xavier's got seven. Kirby's got nine. You want to talk about touchdowns? You like the defensive scores? Xavier scored or Xavier is the. Only one of those three to not score a touchdown.

Jason Harwood: 9:03

Mm hmm.

Jacob: 9:04

Jesse took one back, Kirby took one back in a huge way against the Packers. And then the other, like, uh, the other argument that I saw somebody make is like, well, you know, you have to, you have to take team performance in consideration where the one seed we're fighting for the one seed that, you know, that makes no sense either, especially for Jesse Bates that he put in above him as the alternate, I, you know, by and large, it's a popularity contest and I don't know about you. I'm less concerned about this pobo. I am concerned, as we were for Amun Ra last year, what this means for his All Pro status. Because he deserves that first team All Pro. And I hope that this doesn't deter in any way, or this conversation doesn't, you know, lead in some sort of way where he doesn't get that.

Jason Harwood: 9:51

yeah, I agree. Some of the stats that I think also are pretty eye popping are, we talked about this on the pod, I think with Morgan this last week, you the league with nine interceptions, but the QB passer rating against him is 25. 4, which is the lowest in the league. And also the sixth lowest since I've been keeping the sat in 2016. So this is all time level of, production that we're getting Kirby. mentioned as 25. 4 passer rating. If you look at Xavier McKinney, he's at 57. 9. So you could double Kirby's. Passer rating against it. He'd still be lower than Xavier McKinney. Kirby's only allowed 133 yards passing. Whereas Xavier McKinney is up to 261 yards. I will say the advantage Xavier McKinney has is that he does have a sack and he has four QB pressures. Generally the lines do not send Joseph on that. Whether that's a scheme thing, or, I don't know. Kirby's that effective in that area. So Xavier McKinney does have that, but even that it's one sack. Both of them are playing. Pretty far from the line of scrimmage. So it's hard for them to get a tackle for loss. But yeah, they, Kirby's got them almost on all levels. And I think you're right. It's all down to a perception thing, which is really unfortunate for Kirby. Now, some of these things I will mention that things like purple nods and stuff like that almost are like a year behind sometimes Kirby's name is out there. So he's got to give the benefit of the doubt next year when the players vote and the coaches vote. That's another thing I don't really like about when we talked about the players and coaches vote. If you're someone in the AFC and you never saw Kirby play, you don't know. You're not like watching tape of players that you don't play against. Yes, they, players and coaches should have a vote, but they're limited on what they're going to see or what they have access to. Um, so I, that's not the end all be all either players and coaches voting either.

Jacob: 11:49

Right. Absolutely. Just because you had mentioned it, I just wanted to look and see. And we, we've sent Kirby. Kirby's, uh, rushed three times this year. Three snaps, Kirby's rushed. And that's it. It just doesn't happen very often.

Jason Harwood: 12:02

No, and what was funny is that his one interception that he did return for a touchdown, the Packers was very close to the line and I kind of was rushing and then step back and just got in the passing lane. So, know, he can play out close to the line of scrimmage and that was obviously a game changing play. One thing that I will say is that a lot of Kirby's interceptions. I looked at all his Xaviers and I've seen all of Kirby's. Kirby's, there was a fair amount, especially at the beginning of the season, in the end zone. And those were game changing plays. I can even, the first game of the year when he stole one from Stafford, you know, that was right before the half, he, he picked that ball off. That was huge in that game. Obviously, returning one for a touchdown, huge in that game. Xaviers did, has not had any in the red zone, as far as I could, remember, and certainly none in the end zone. So, I mean, Kirby's taken it off in, in key times. Man,

Jacob: 13:05

didn't make the pro bowl. We still think, I mean, he still should be at the front runner for all pro. They're still talking about him being an all pro and he still is being thrown around as defensive player of the year. Right now the favorite for defensive player of the year is Patrick Sertan from the Broncos. And the second favorite right now is TJ Watt. Do you think there's any possibility, um, that Kirby wins it? And then while we're talking about it too, I mean, do you think that Patrick Surtain, uh, you know, obviously he's the favorite, but do you think that he's deserving of defensive player of the year? And is it because of the fact that there has not been like a standout player? Is it because it's wide open? There's not anybody breaking any records. Do you think that's why Kirby and Patrick Surtain are like in the conversation? TJ Watt is in the conversation because he's TJ Watt. He's not performing at the level that he has. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Jason Harwood: 14:23

wouldn't is if you weren't having quarterbacks, just having more. seasons. And then you had a season like Saquon where he's, you know, close to breaking the record or something like that. But this year we've had some awesome quarterback. So one, a quarterback is going to get it in defensive line. It's who can rush the quarterback. Who's going to affect gameplay that, that way, usually a. I'll play with a sack. However, with them both being low and, that's why you have Patrick Satane and Kirby in there. I don't think either one of them win. I'm biased because I want to say Kirby's going to do it, but I just don't, he won't have the votes votes to get there, especially with him not making the pro ball. What about you? are you?

Jacob: 15:06

Well, I mean, it's, it's definitely just a popularity contest. T. J. Watts actually fourth in sacks right now. Trey Hendrickson leads the league in sacks and Trey Hendrickson is nowhere to be found on there.

Jason Harwood: 15:16

Niles. Yeah. Yep.

Jacob: 15:17

Yep. And mile. And then daniel Hunter, is close falling on behind, but yeah, it is just one of those things. Historically, a defensive lineman, defensive end. It's Defensive tackle. Aaron Donald obviously did it for a little bit. Then linebacker, I actually went back to look just to see as far as defensive backs for defensive player of the year, Stefan Gilmore, um, won in 2019 with the Patriots. Um, and he had hardly any stats. Like there were no, that's the thing about cornerbacks, right? Is, you know, and Patrick Sertan this year, I think he's got like four interceptions. Uh, it's just, you know, the impact that he has on the game because they're not throwing to them.

Jason Harwood: 15:53

Yep.

Jacob: 15:55

So, and that's also a perception thing, you know, they're not throwing at him, so then the stats aren't there, the catches aren't there as much, and then, But, uh, yeah, so that's when Gilmore won last, but the safety that won most recently was in 2010, it was Troy Palomalu. Troy Palomalu that year had 63 tackles, 7 interceptions, and 1 sack. And he was the defensive player of the year. But, you know, like I said,

Jason Harwood: 16:22

though.

Jacob: 16:23

right. No, absolutely. But it is a popularity thing.

Jason Harwood: 16:26

It is,

Jacob: 16:27

It's who has the most hype.

Jason Harwood: 16:30

it, it is, but I would say with Troy, if you watched him play, is that he affected a lot of plays, even if he didn't make the tackle or whatever, he, he could affect the play. So, I mean, that's really hard when you just look at those stats. I don't, who votes for the player of the year, is it media or

Jacob: 16:48

It's associated press. So I think that's the media thing.

Jason Harwood: 16:51

Right. You have some media members that do their research and do their, our journalists and, and see everything. And then you have other people that, yeah, it's a popularity contest or, now it's a social media contest. Um,

Jacob: 17:04

The thing about Palomalo, which maybe that's a good thing for Kirby Joseph going forward too, is that Palomalo's best years were probably leading up to that. I mean, he was already established. He was, you know, when you're talking about all over the field and everything, that's already the type of player that he was. And then this particular year, when he won defensive player of the year, it wasn't really You know, off the rails, crazy. You know, it was more so like there's nobody else. And then you've got Troy Palomaro. He's the name he's still playing at a high level. It's, you know, that's why I said before, it just comes down to a lot of it is just a popularity contest and less about what you put on the field.

Jason Harwood: 17:40

I don't know why that I think you know, that's what I said before about the problems being like a year behind, it takes a little bit to get, The benefit of the doubt. And so like, okay, he's having a, you know, he's having a Kirby Joseph year. So yeah, we're going to put him in the pro bowl. He deserves it, whether it's his best year or not. So I,

Jacob: 17:56

Like I'm in raw, hopefully. I mean, you know,

Jason Harwood: 17:59

I'm hoping that Kirby gets at nine interceptions. Just this past week, the one was a gift. That was a bad throw by Brock Purdy, but the second one. That was all Kirby reading the eyes and doing his thing and anticipate it. And that's what changed this year. He's able to do that. And both those interceptions, if we don't get those, lines don't win that game. I mean, line, they don't win that game. They don't get both those interceptions.

Jacob: 18:25

yes, but I don't, you know, I don't think they take that into consideration, the grand scheme of things, the level of,

Jason Harwood: 18:32

no, I'm just saying

Jacob: 18:33

they just look at the number.

Jason Harwood: 18:34

Yeah, no, I

Jacob: 18:35

Obviously, it's a huge.

Jason Harwood: 18:37

Yeah, it's it's gigantic So but anything else you want to add to the kirby argument?

Jacob: 18:44

No, I think I've, I rest my case.

Jason Harwood: 18:47

Yeah, I know I hope that he gets in well, hopefully he doesn't even have to play because we're Preparing for the Superbowl, right? But

Jacob: 18:54

Right,

Jason Harwood: 18:55

hope for all pro he gets, he gets his nod. He deserves it. He's having an amazing year and, uh, he's going to, regardless, he's going to earn a big contract. Hopefully it's with the lions.

Jacob: 19:06

right. Hey, he said before the season, he said, I want to lead the league in interceptions. And you know, when we hear that, we're like, you know, awesome, which we already knew, like, awesome. He's a hard worker. You know, he's setting goals. He's got high hopes for the team. And then to see it, you know, come to fruition and to see him actually leading the league in interceptions and still playing high, you know, it's just awesome.

Jason Harwood: 19:28

I agree. Yeah. When he said that, and I saw those in the book, I was like, Oh, that'd be pretty cool if he got, if he could get like four or five or something like that. And I didn't think that he would lead the league. It's not that I don't think Kirby, it's hard to get interceptions and some of them are luck. Dude. You can look into some of that. But he's had his fair share of, he used his skill and, and got a vast majority of those interceptions where, he read the play. Right.

Jacob: 19:55

Right.

Jason Harwood: 19:56

All right, Jacob, I think we can take off here. It's, uh, you can like, and subscribe. If you like what you heard, send us in the comments. Is there something we're missing? Is there someone else that, deserves to be up there that we should have talked about who is your defensive player of the year? So Jacob, I'm Jason. Let's go lions.