Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
Are you looking for a Detroit Lions podcast where the hosts give their honest opinions and don't shout over each other and give ridiculous hot takes? If you are, then welcome to Talking Grit. Hosts Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton share their thoughts on the latest Detroit Lions news and games. It's real football talk for real Detroit Lions fans.
Talking Grit: A Detroit Lions Podcast
E60: The Non-"Super" Bowl and How It Relates to the Lions Future
In this episode of 'Talking Grit,' co-hosts Jason Harwood and Jacob Litton discuss various topics. They review the NFL awards and Super Bowl game, sharing their setups and game experiences. They analyze the Super Bowl commercials and key plays, highlighting controversial calls while expressing their disdain for Super Bowl parties. The duo transitions to reviewing the Detroit Lions' season, naming the offensive and defensive MVPs, and discussing standout players like Jahmyr Gibbs and Kerby Joseph. They also delve into the NFL awards show, critiquing the MVP and Coach of the Year decisions, and sharing their thoughts on changes to the award categories. Lastly, they address CJ Gardner-Johnson's critical comments about his time in Detroit and a controversial tweet by Greg Rosenthal comparing the Lions' running backs. They conclude by previewing an upcoming fantasy play draft with Meko and Morgan from Pride of Detroit.
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Welcome to Talking Grit. You can find us on Twitter at Talking Grit Pod. I'm Jason Harwood and I'm your awesome co host. And with me is the generally acceptable Jacob Litten.
Jacob:You could barely get that sentence, no?
Jason Harwood:it's now the off season for all 32 teams. So we're back to zero and zero. It's a new league year. Free agency begins March 12th. But for right now, we got some stuff we could talk about. The NFL awards were last week. And there were some comments from a certain former lion safety that I want to get your opinions on Jacob, but I don't know if you remember, but there was a big game yesterday. I got to watch it. So before we get to talk about the game, I want to know your setup. Who are you watching the game with? Are you doing it at home? What's going on?
Jacob:What game are you referring to? My season ended a couple weeks ago.
Jason Harwood:yeah. Talk about this other game, you know, for the NFL game.
Jacob:Oh, that's right. Yeah. No, I
Jason Harwood:for two cities, right?
Jacob:Right? Two cities we don't care for the most, but that's okay.
Jason Harwood:Mm
Jacob:No, chill. Watch it at home as I generally do, you know, sometimes some family members have Super Bowl parties. So sometimes we go out there I think I told you I mentioned this before I just can't I want to watch the football game I want to be into the game. There's too much other talking There's too many questions asked of me like outside of what this means what that means, you know commercial talk You know, sometimes good. You can talk about it during halftime. Generally don't like the idea of Super Bowl parties. So this is a good one. We, you know, made a bunch of different snacks and stuff. Hung it out the house. Washed it with J. J. and Milo.
Jason Harwood:What's your best snack that you had?
Jacob:The best snack? So I actually make these they're called gyozas. I don't know why they're called that, but that's just what I've been told. It's like a wonton wrapper with mozzarella cheese and garlic salt. So it's kind of like a variation of a cheese stick. It's always a crowd pleaser.
Jason Harwood:Yeah,
Jacob:Of course, there was no crowd, it was just me and JJ, but yeah. No, it was good.
Jason Harwood:That's awesome.
Jacob:Jeremy probably would not appreciate them, but
Jason Harwood:Yeah. The mozzarella sticks.
Jacob:yeah.
Jason Harwood:he would say something else now. Yeah, we usually have like a small group of family members over my, my uncle Bob, that comes over so much fun to watch a football game with cause he's fun to pick on. He never wins at the squares, but he buys a bunch of squares. So it's always fun to like see them, see him almost win and then not win at the last second. so. And he's just a generally fun guy to be around, but he fell. So he wasn't able to come. So that was kind of a bummer. My grandma did come over, love sports. She won one of the squares. So that was really cool. Why youngest Bradley won one of the squares and at my house, whoever's at the house, we all chip in five bucks and then we split the number of squares evenly. And then for house fun, we'll buy a instant scratch off ticket. For the winner of a, you know, the quarters. So you get the, you know, one quarter of the pot, and then you also get a free scratch off ticket. Well, Bradley won like 15 bucks on the one scratch off and that are 15 bucks cash. And then scratch off the lottery to get one another 25 bucks on a scratch off. So that was good for him. So we,
Jacob:day for him.
Jason Harwood:We, we usually have the same group. We had Sarah's uncle come over which was different for us. And then the boys had a friend over, but. They really, they really pay attention to the game and it's, it's, it's, it's a fun time. I'm like you, I like to be able to sit and watch the game and like dissect it. And, but this Superbowl was kind of different cause I was really indifferent to both of these teams and, you know, luckily for me, it wasn't competitive. So if I wanted to like be fully invested in whatever, and there was distractions, it didn't really matter to me. Game was over by halftime.
Jacob:Yeah, sometimes like, you know, I'll I'll watch the commercials and stuff like that too, just to see which one's the best kind of the way the game was going. Commercial was just like any other commercial time for me. So I don't know if you guys, you're at a party, so I'm sure everybody's excited about the commercials or whatever, watching them, but. Here, I've, you know, I'd only watched a handful of them. I don't even know which ones were good.
Jason Harwood:I don't even know. The only thing that was like freaky was the hat were like the, do you remember the hat, like the skin hats, like they were the to be commercials. Did you see
Jacob:No. No. I didn't see that.
Jason Harwood:I, we couldn't even hear the sound. Cause like, there was just a lot of like talking going on just conversation or whatever. And so we weren't really paying attention to the commercials as close as we use. But like. The 2B one, I don't even know what, it was just a weird ad. Like the people had like heads were hats. I don't, I don't know. The hats look like skin. It was really weird. Look it up. It's, it's freaky. There was like three of them.
Jacob:That's the thing about the Super Bowl commercials, too, is like, you know, back, like, years ago, you never saw these things ahead of time. You, they debuted that day. Now, a bunch of them are like, you can see them leaked online. Or, like you just said, if I wanna see that commercial, it'd take me two seconds to look it up and watch it. Yet, they still cost the people millions of dollars.
Jason Harwood:8 million for 30 seconds, they said 8 million for 30 seconds of ads. That's man. I can't
Jacob:Crazy.
Jason Harwood:fathom. I can't even fathom that. So all right. What'd you think about the game in general?
Jacob:thought the Eagles were going to get it done, I thought the defense was probably going to be too much, and the Chiefs, outside of the playoffs, just hadn't looked very impressive to me this year, and I did not expect it to go The way that it did you know, I thought they were going to hang in there for a little while. Maybe there's going to be some more controversy at the end, for it to be 34 to nothing at one point is crazy. And then you're talking like, okay, are they going to score? Is this going to be, you know, the biggest blowout of all time that, you know, was decided definitely, you know, halfway, if it wasn't already decided at halftime, you know, midway through the third quarter, when they still weren't able to do anything and gave up more points, it was over at that point. Right?
Jason Harwood:So I've, what at right before the half like less than two minutes, or it might've been around the two minute mark, the chiefs get the ball back and it was 17, nothing at that point. And I, and then chiefs were going to get the ball after halftime. So my thought was like, chiefs are going to score, you know, and then they could score and then this could be a game, but when Mahomes threw that pick and that was a great interception down at the, man, that was a great catch.
Jacob:Yeah. Zach Bond, the linebreaker.
Jason Harwood:yeah, and he, that was, that was a great, great catch. And you know, they scored, I was like, Oh man, now it, now it's. over and then, but the only talk was that we had at our house was, are they setting up my homes for the, you know, the, one of the greatest, it wasn't 28 to three yet. So, you know, we couldn't
Jacob:right.
Jason Harwood:comeback, but it could, it was getting close, you know, to the point where, you know, my homes is going to top Brady's comeback while Brady is calling the game.
Jacob:Right? Right? Hey, something to think about.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, just didn't happen. Yeah, it was. you know, like I said, there was some conversation going on and my grandma at one point goes got quiet at one second. She goes. Oh, there are announcers in this game Like as a sarcastic comment and I said, I looked at him like at least we don't have to listen to tom Brady talk and she goes you got that right? So she
Jacob:Yeah.
Jason Harwood:of tom brady She thinks he's arrogant. She does not like tom brady.
Jacob:Oh. We got the Michigan thing. We have to, we have to be impartial to Tom Brady, at least.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I'll
Jacob:I can say I like Tom Brady now. He's not the best announcer, though.
Jason Harwood:no he's
Jacob:it's weird, he's already right here in the Super Bowl again. Like,
Jason Harwood:Yeah, well the thing is that like you know, for quarterbacking, he started at the lowest rung, right? He was backup, right? Nothing expected of him. And then when he comes now at the broadcast booth, they bring him in as the number one. they, and not only did they bring him as number one, they unseat someone who's fairly popular with Greg Olson.
Jacob:know he was very good.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. And, and so that that didn't suit Tom Brady wealth because it's like Tom Brady is not someone in life that seems like he was just giving, ever given everything, you know, even at Michigan, he had to really work at it. Six round draft pick for the Patriots had to work at it to get to where he's at. And it just seems like this job, was just given and. You know, that, that doesn't leave a good taste. You can't root for him in that case. If he'd have been like the third or fourth that probably would have suited him better to be like the third or fourth analyst for a year or two like find his style and like get better at what he's doing. But yeah,
Jacob:but I think you're expecting too much out of these announcers. It's just, you know, it's about the name, right?
Jason Harwood:yeah,
Jacob:Obviously, Tom Brady is going to have good insight, but it's more about the fact that his name is Tom Brady.
Jason Harwood:yes.
Jacob:That's the same reason why you have the analysts on, you know, the sports center or ESPN shows all the different things. It's just kind of the names are get thrown out there and it's not, you know, I guess the only good example I can think of is a basketball example. So I don't even know if you get that, but like Kendrick Perkins as a basketball player.
Jason Harwood:yeah.
Jacob:Terrible, terrible takes all the time. Just really weird things that he says, never anything good. And he's been one of like the top analysts or whatever for, I don't even know how long I, and I think that's ESPN. I don't know what show he's on or anything, but it's like, if he wasn't a former basketball player, if he didn't have the name and everything like that, and he wasn't even that notable of a basketball player, but it's just one of those things, you know, they'd rather have somebody like that than a nobody, even if the nobody knows what they're talking about.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I've also, you know, when we started back in May and we're still trying to get like a Twitter, you know, thing going, you get the social media thing going to just get your name out there. I just have trouble. I don't, we don't have like, I our takes may be wrong, but we don't have like ridiculous takes. I don't feel like, or like stick to our guns, even when we're proven wrong about something. And I feel like that's what it takes to either,
Jacob:Yeah,
Jason Harwood:know, to get, to get out there. I look at like what Jeremy or Justin Rogers, you know, they responded to some of these bad takes or Woodward sports, you know, they have like terrible, terrible takes. Right.
Jacob:and that's how they got there, though,
Jason Harwood:yes.
Jacob:right? I mean, that's how they get the following is by having ridiculous.
Jason Harwood:don't want to ever be in that spot where
Jacob:No,
Jason Harwood:I, I get more followers or more interactions because I'm saying something stupid. I'd rather be known for, I'd rather have 10
Jacob:you'll do that on your own.
Jason Harwood:than a thousand other people know I'm stupid, you know, I don't know, but yeah, so I don't know. So let's, let's,
Jacob:Let's
Jason Harwood:know,
Jacob:let's talk about the bad take, though. Do you want to go over that? Or
Jason Harwood:let's do that. Let's talk about bad takes. I'm going to let you introduce it. Go ahead.
Jacob:so the hot topic on Twitter right now, because we've been talking about the Super Bowl, the Eagles, obviously defensive performance. They're wanting to, you know, trade as many picks as necessary to get miles Garrett on the team based on how the Eagles played. And that's something that I am not, you know, not on board with, but how do you feel about it?
Jason Harwood:I don't. with that at all. I mean, if we got miles Garrett, I think both you and I would be excited for the next season, right? We would be
Jacob:Absolutely.
Jason Harwood:to give up capital to get him draft capital to get him. Number two, we're the opportunity of maybe resigning. Some of our players are having, you know, financial, flexibility is gone because miles Garrett's going to up some of that space. I don't know. Miles Garrett. Like as a teammate, right? I'm not around him. I don't the Browns. I know that he's a heck of a football player. I have a feeling that he would probably mesh with the team, but that is another thing is I, I don't know how, you know, I don't know if he's a big alpha and you got Aiden on the other side, right? I mean, that's. You know, you're going to have to deal with that. And Aiden is in this town is going to be number one. I don't care what miles Garrett does. Aiden's going to be number one. And just the Michigan standpoint and just from the area and all that stuff. So that is another thing to difficult to deal with. The other thing that. And we don't have to go into depth here, but probably Detroit goes I think Morgan and Miko go through this is the Browns. We're going to have a, like a huge cap hit at the trade miles Garrett. They have no incentive to trade him other than miles Garrett saying, I'm not going to play for you. And they're, they have to get something. They take. already in cap hell because of the Deshaun Watson thing. They're not going to take on another 30 million in like dead cap money to get, you know, to get rid of a Good player.
Jacob:They're best player, right?
Jason Harwood:so I just don't, I think it's all a big pipe dream. I think you'd have a better chance to get Max Crosby than you would Miles Garrett, to be honest with you. I don't think either are going to come here. other thing that I think that
Jacob:fell out when you said you don't think either who, who else did you say?
Jason Harwood:I said, Max Crosby, I
Jacob:Right, right. Okay.
Jason Harwood:of those guys are going to end up here, but I, I would
Jacob:We would welcome either of them.
Jason Harwood:Yes. Oh, them, but I think that there's opportunity costs for getting them here.
Jacob:Yes. It's not about the player. Obviously, if you're like, Hey, you, do you want miles Garrett? Do you want max Crosby? Of course we want them. It's the price that it's going to cost to get them here and keep them here.
Jason Harwood:Mm hmm.
Jacob:And you know, That money has to come somewhere. The, the draft fix going away is huge.
Jason Harwood:Yes.
Jacob:And that's something that I don't think people, you know, they just see the result and they don't really realize that the, the Eagles defense was built on draft picks. Yeah. I mean, they're dominant, but they've got like their defensive line. Three of the four of them were first round picks for the Eagles. They're defensive backs, I mean, obviously they got Slate in the trade with us, but, you know, the rookies, those are just this year, first and second round picks. They've been working on building this defense, and it worked. So, you know, wouldn't you rather build through the draft, especially the way we've been drafting? We're right there, we're right on the cusp, we don't need to, we don't need to get Yes, an all star like that would be nice, but if that means we're missing out on potentially two, three, four you know, valuable players over the next like four or five years. We can't do that.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, not if you want to be a consistent winner. And see, that's what I think, matter how good you are or whatever you have, there's a certain amount of luck that goes into winning the super bowl, whether it's injury, injury luck facing a team that has, you know, some sort of bad luck. I mean, there, there is. A form of luck, you know, you could be the best team, but you might run into, know, the chiefs ran into the Eagles they just blew them away. Right? I mean, there's just sometimes you just run into something that you can't come up against or you have an injury at the wrong time. So for me, it's like, if I'm going to go. to a lottery. I could buy 10 tickets to this season. That's the miles Garrett, right? I'm going to buy 10 tickets for this one lottery pick this one season. And then the next nine years are going to be bad. Or I could buy lottery tickets, one for each year. And then, you know, I have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl because ultimately, for me, I just want that Super Bowl. And I think I'd rather have seasons getting to the Super Bowl rather than blowing it in one or two years and then having like what the Saints are going through or the Browns, like we just said, cap hell. And then you're, then you're, you know, struggling or whatever, and what's going to keep us afloat is signing our players and then drafting cheap rookies that we will develop into good players that, that deserve a second contract.
Jacob:That's the key to success,
Jason Harwood:The people that just want miles gear right now are impatient to me. That's the way I look at it. Right. I mean, is that, do you categorize it as that? Like we just need to win now.
Jacob:right? Oh, I think they would have to be if that's your, if that's your thought process is to trade like the 2 1st round on the 2nd or whatever, if you're trading, if you're someone trading that many graphics for miles Garrett, you just want to win now. And you're 1 of those people. I'm going to put all my eggs in the basket and, you know, we're going all in for this next year. Hopefully we get it done and then we'll be back to, you know, mid range, struggling cap hell. You know, we want to keep the window open for as long as possible and that's not how you do it.
Jason Harwood:I agree. And what, and as long as we got Brad Holmes making those picks and that front office making those picks, I want to keep as many draft picks as we, as we can. I mean, I don't mind trading around and moving things around and getting your guy like they did with Terry on. You're not giving up, you know, you're giving up third rounders or, you know, later to get your guy. I, I'm okay with that. also might be this year where we don't use the first round pick and we trade back to get more capital for next year, if we want to bump up and get a guy, I could go either way on that, especially when you're drafted late in the first round, not too much difference between those late first round guys and second round second round picks, get an extra third round pick, getting an extra You know, chance of getting a, you know, a starter or a player, and it's not like we have a lot of holes on this team that we need to just fill right now, know, we'll see after free agency, if we get Zyler back, you know, our offensive lines. Barely set, you know, there, our offense will be, there won't be really anybody to other, you know, maybe sign in Tim Patrick back, which that could be done before for agency. So we'll
Jacob:Right. There's not too many spots to fill. There's not too many openings here. It's about getting depth and we're not going to have another season with the injuries that we had this year either.
Jason Harwood:Yeah,
Jacob:I mean, that was a fluke.
Jason Harwood:that was, and it, I mean, the fluky thing was, it was all on the defensive side. I mean, it was a lot for the whole team in general. Know, we could have next year where the offense gets hit a little bit more. And we, you know, we were fairly lucky other than Khalif and Demo going down. And we had some, you know, spot stuff on the offensive line, but nothing, you know, that was less than more than a game or two. You know, we, we were fairly good on the offensive side of the ball. It's just that defense just got decimated, you know, linebacker, especially. And then our line really just took it. Our secondary was all right until. Carlton got hurt. So,
Jacob:Yeah.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, the other thing that I wanted to talk to you about was the, and this game was the refs that could lead up to this was like, the chiefs are fully favored and by the refs and the leagues got it, you know, they have their script and they're, they want the chiefs to get there. Didn't appear that way. Although the first foul, we talked a little bit at work today. You want to talk about that offensive pass interference first, before we
Jacob:Right, right. I mean the timing of it, especially you had a couple of the media members, even asking like my homes and Travis Travis Kelsey about. Benefiting from referee calls and everything like that. And you could tell it kind of got under their skin, you know, having to answer questions like that and having to deal with this, you know, what they say is a ridiculous notion that the refs are on their side. And then the very first, you know, like big critical play of the games fourth down, they throw a deep and they get offensive pass interference called on the Eagles. It did not help that case right away. You got people screaming, you know, you can't call that. And of course, it's for the chiefs and blah, blah, blah. I've said this before. I know I said it to you. They do not call offensive pass interference enough. If you're going to call it as much as you do on the defense, you've got to call it on the offense. They you know, yes, there's hand fighting going on way too many times. They let the offensive receiver get that last shove to create separation to make the catch. That happens way too much and this time they probably would have let it slide If not for it being right in his helmet, it was right in his face And that's the only reason I think they called that because they do have a little bit of the fighting It's it was aj brown, right? It just shoves him right in the face mask and then you know goes and makes the catch was it pass interference? Yes, that was offensive pass interference. Is it tough to call that on fourth down the first drive of the super bowl? Yes, but I mean, a penalty is supposed to be a penalty no matter when it happens in the game. What were your thoughts though? Like, live did you think it was a foul? Like, before we saw the replay when you were just watching.
Jason Harwood:replay, I was, I thought, I thought it'd be on the Chiefs just because you see a flag like that go out. I thought, Oh, that's on the, on the Chiefs. Then they did the replay, saw it, you know, AJ Brown fully extended his arm right into the face mask and the Chiefs probably flopped a little bit, like throwing his head back as violently as he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm okay with, honestly, if they called that game, I'd be fine with that, with that type of penalty because you're right, the offense will create extra separation and they, know, you got to be pretty egregious for it to be called offensive pass interference. The Lions got a fair amount of offensive pass interference calls like the opposition. We were the benefit of those, but most of them, they were almost all pick plays.
Jacob:Right, right.
Jason Harwood:it's hardly ever called in a situation where it's a one on one, especially in a deep shot It's out of 100 times if not more Called on the defense but
Jacob:That terrible one on Thanksgiving against, er, with Vildor.
Jason Harwood:Yes.
Jacob:Stuff like that. Like, are you kidding me? Why?
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:can't touch them if you're on defense, but if you're on offense, you get a full extension.
Jason Harwood:Yeah Well, if AJ Brown would have hit him, I think you're right if he hits him in the shoulder and does that same thing? They probably don't call that
Jacob:Right, right. Even though by rule, that's still, you know, full extension of the arm, it should be PI, but they don't call that on the offense.
Jason Harwood:Mm hmm. Yeah,
Jacob:But that was that was about the only, the only call the Chiefs had go their way pretty much the whole night. Outside of those really weird like Is that false start that they kept calling on the field goal?
Jason Harwood:yeah, and those didn't matter because they kept they, you know.
Jacob:Well, he didn't end up missing and
Jason Harwood:it. Yeah.
Jacob:drop the next 5 years.
Jason Harwood:one of my favorite things about the Superbowl is that, so Jake Elliot was the kicker for the Eagles was Preston's, uh, fancy team. And he didn't have a great regular season. So every time they got to field goal range, you'd be like, Oh, I can get three points or whatever, and Preston would look at me, he goes, Jake, Elliot sucks. He's not going to make it. And it's just so funny. Just to listen to him talk about that. And then, yeah, he kept getting backed up five yards. You know, I think going back to, to the rep dude, the chiefs get benefits calls. And I, I've seen enough chiefs games that I do think that they probably get the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes whether that's going to matter in the game or not, I don't know. I think it comes down to, and we'll talk about this later in the off season, Jake about, you know automatic. First downs, like for a defensive holding or something like that, you, that could really change a drive. Cause you he hit him pretty high. His hands were up high and they could have called that. But they,
Jacob:It seemed like that was the main difference, is like, usually, that's most of the gripe that I feel like people have, is that Mahomes, you know, the late slides, or you know, the questionable roughing the passer when it's like he barely got hit. This game, it really seemed like they were letting them attack Mahomes, like, they, he, I don't believe they got one call on him, right? I didn't see any.
Jason Harwood:I don't think so. And
Jacob:him,
Jason Harwood:well, they were able to get to him with four, which was crazy. And then yeah, the, yeah, I didn't really see anything else that I called questionable now, you know, chiefs fans may beg to differ with me. I don't, I don't really don't know what's out there, but that was the most blatant one with him getting hit in the face. But I think the previous calls, like they had that one, the Texans were really the. They got, the Texans got called for roughing the passer and they, they hit, like the defenders hit each other and just went over the top of Mahomes, but yet they called that. And you know, that's the type of crap that I think the Chiefs get is they get
Jacob:right?
Jason Harwood:enough of the benefit of the doubt to throw that flag out there. And I think the refs, you know, I don't think the NFL is like, Hey, you need to flag this, but. It's pretty clear that Mahomes is pretty important for the for the importance of this game like the NFL game And so they're the refs are gonna be quick to protect him. We're like Bo Nix or someone else Jerr Goff, they're not gonna get that benefit of the doubt that Mahomes is
Jacob:Huh, we saw.
Jason Harwood:Yeah,
Jacob:Let my homes get cracked in the head on a pick six and see what happens.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, no, I probably would have got guy would have got kicked out of the game.
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:Be pretty surprised if he didn't
Jacob:They'd have made the other team just forfeit. You can't do that. You're all out.
Jason Harwood:They made it clear that I saw a funny meme that when you know, when the commanders kept jumping off sides on Jalen hurts and
Jacob:Yeah.
Jason Harwood:we can, you know, award you, you know, we can award you a touchdown. I saw the meme where the guy just like is moving his hands together. You know, like, Oh, I'm going to get this. It's like chiefs fans fair chiefs players figuring out that the rest could just award them a touchdown for nothing.
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:It was it was really hilarious. So yeah, I don't, I, always going to be this, I mean, we've had our fair share of rough gripes as Lions fans of not getting the benefit of the doubt. I think it's really hard to be perfect for these refs, but I also think that, and I don't think there's a script, but I do think, you know, the NFL makes it clear what's important and what's, you know, they're not going to enforce and they. They can definitely change the game really quickly holding call here and important play. yeah. All right. Do you want to move on to some of the season line season review stuff? The season's over now.
Jacob:Enough of these other teams. Let's get back to the Lions.
Jason Harwood:so we haven't talked, you know, we kind of held off to the season was over before we go through some of our lines overview stuff. So first we're going to start with offensive MVP. I have it down to three players. I'm gonna let you go. Who did you pick for the lions offensive MVP this year?
Jacob:Offensive MVP, I gave that to Jameer Gibbs. I only had two on my list. It was Gibbs and Panay Sewell. But Gibbs, you know, top five in rushing yards this year, despite splitting carries. You know, everyone else on that list is like a bell cow running back. He had almost a hundred less carries than Saquon. But top five in rushing yards, top three in scrimmage yards. He led the league in total touchdowns. I mean. Just a phenomenal season from Gibbs,
Jason Harwood:Yep. Yeah. We really seen him take over. I mean, Demo started out the gate like really hot and then, Gibbs was keep a track with him with the yards just with less touches. And then when Demo got hurt, you could see what Gibbs is full of potential could
Jacob:right?
Jason Harwood:And, you know, in his second season, getting almost 2000 all purpose yards, like you said, leading the league Russian. Yeah. He's my offensive MVP too. My third, you met up in a soul.
Jacob:Yep.
Jason Harwood:offensive lineman's on there. You know, we can't really talk too much statistics with him, although he got sacked more than he allowed a sack this year. So that's pretty, pretty amazing statistic. My other one is Jared Goff. I really, know that he had a couple of spotty games. He didn't end the season on the game that we want from him, but he is, he was better this year than he was last year, which I know we had talked about, like, could he get better signing that big contract? Yeah. And then it's going to be interesting. Ben Johnson's gone next year. that going to mean for golf? Is he going to be as comfortable with Morton? They've already worked together, so I feel good there. We still have Dan Campbell and. Based on Dan Campbell's comments, like he called the offense, his baby. So I'm, I, just so curious how much his influence on Ben Johnson, like that chemistry together and how much of that was Ben Johnson, how much of that is Dan Campbell and Dan Campbell, isn't going to be someone that takes credit, not that Ben Johnson was stealing credit, but Dan Campbell's not going to be like, well, I'm the one that, you know,
Jacob:right. Absolutely.
Jason Harwood:So I, I like, I'm not as worried about losing bad Johnson because we have Dan Campbell and, you know, on the defensive side, keeping Calvin Shepard, I feel good about that. So,
Jacob:Well, we already said like about the Continuity, you know if Zytler comes back, but we are rolling out the same exact offense We have the same squad the same guys, you know And as long as we're not changing to too much of the play calls and everything with you know It's still golf back there. I'm sure the offensive coordinator that I brought in Has been brought in with the intention on we're not gonna be switching up too much. You know, we're not gonna be making things harder You know, and like you said, if Dan Campbell, if it's his baby, it's going to be interesting to see how similar the bears offense looks to what we were this past year.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, That's going to be a really interesting dynamic, how all that shakes out, but, you know, losing Ben, Ben Johnson is, I mean, I would rather have him back than to lose him,
Jacob:Right,
Jason Harwood:having dad Campbell, Morton worked, John Morton worked with golf a couple of years ago, he's been working with Sean Payton. I mean, that philosophy is going to be the same. So I don't think he's going to come in here and try to change. Change things for the sake of changing things, you know, I, whether we're going to have as many trick plays or whatever, you know, I don't think that was all Ben Johnson, all the trick plays. I think that they all work together on that. Although I don't think we necessarily need all that. We're, we're so good on the line all our skill positions that we don't need trick plays. We could just, you know, go out there and just. Play our best and beat beat other teams, although I do want to see the hook and ladder play because I think
Jacob:right.
Jason Harwood:so hard to defend. So I'm hoping that just stays part of our offense.
Jacob:Yeah, no, I mean, they're, they're awesome when they work, but it's just one of those things. Just like going for on fourth down like when it works. It's like that was a great play call You know, that was awesome. We love to see it. And then when it doesn't work, it's like what are you doing? You know, why'd you let J Mo throw the ball throw an interception, you know, like it just inevitable. That's what it's gonna look like,
Jason Harwood:Yep. Yeah. Hindsight's always 20, 20 with those, right?
Jacob:right?
Jason Harwood:do it in this spot? If it works, they get a touchdown. You're like, Oh, what a genius call. I would have never thought of that. All right. Let's move on to defensive MVP. I think that this one's fairly obvious. I'm going to, I'll start out. It's Kirby Joseph, right? I mean, Aiden plays a whole season. It's going to be a good argument between the two. Although I think Aiden probably, if he kept playing the way he was playing, it'd be hands down Aiden. But Kirby turned into, I mean, he's always been a ball hawk, but he turned into way more effective ball hawk. And I'm super excited to see his growth into the next year.
Jacob:Absolutely. I mean just can't say enough positive things about Kirby. He went from being really good You know, we were hoping he was gonna take the next step and now he went to being great and you know one of the top safeties in the league the other guy that I have on here just to mention, cause I thought you were going to say Kirby, is Brian Branch. You know, these are two, Brian Branch was a second round draft pick. Kirby Joseph was a third round draft pick and they were both back there. They made, you know, CJ, GJ expendable, you know, we weren't worried about getting him back because of the play of them last year and they took it to a whole nother level this year. Both of them.
Jason Harwood:I know. Well, Branch's interception level fell off about the time that we stopped being able to get a lot of pressure with just four,
Jacob:Yeah.
Jason Harwood:around that time, because it'd be interesting to, see, because I think Brian Branch is. Such just a good football player with good football instincts that if he could play a true safety back there and I always think flashback to the Sam Darnold interception where that first game where he just undercut the route and just made a great diving interception. I feel like if we could have Aiden back and get some pressure, you're going to see more of that and branch would have more interceptions branch.
Jacob:also had to boost him more after that too. So he wasn't dropping back as much. He was the one kind of getting, trying to get pressure. So you're right.
Jason Harwood:Well, when Carlton went down, then they start pulling branch you know, the, if he came back. So if he's playing back there, branch is playing closer to the line and yes, he's getting more pressure. I love having Brian branch on my team, no matter where they have, cause he's going to be, he's going to make football plays. Is there, I think, trying to find Calvin Shepherd is going to find put him in the right spot. And I, I just curious what that right spot is going to be next year. Are they going to put it back at the safety? Are we going to find someone at safety to replace him? You know, are we going to, you know, if a meek has to go to the outside, cause we don't have Carlton, Brian branch could be back in line to play nickel, depending on what we think of rake straw. I mean, there's a lot, a lot of stuff to look for in the off season. And I really look forward to figuring out where all that's going to line up.
Jacob:Seems like it was only like a month ago we were talking about this before we went to training camp. It's the same thing we were trying to look at, see how all the defensive backs look together, see where everybody lined up.
Jason Harwood:Well, we'll be, you know,
Jacob:I already can't wait for another one.
Jason Harwood:it's like 200 days away for the season to start. But, you know, we, these are the type of thoughts that go through our mind, right? We're already looking, right? We're already like, Ooh, where are these chess pieces going to go? And that's why I like talking football with you, Jacob. Cause it's, you know, you and I think alike and we're like, Oh, we're already thinking about next year and where we're, we're going to put these in. We haven't even free agency yet. We
Jacob:I know,
Jason Harwood:our chess pieces
Jacob:right, right.
Jason Harwood:All right. Do you have a favorite game this season, this whole season? Do you, were you able to pinpoint one game that you, that you thought was your favorite?
Jacob:I was able to pinpoint one game. And, you know, it's funny because in the grand scheme, it didn't really even matter as much. It was a, it was an AFC opponent, but my favorite game was week 11, which was the home game against the Jaguars.
Jason Harwood:Okay.
Jacob:And you know, that was the game where it was just everything went right. Everything that we tried to do, we executed. The defense stopped him. The offense was killing it. We outgained them. 645 to 170. We were perfect. Three for three on fourth down six for 10 on third down, golf went 24 for 29, 412 yards, four touchdowns, Gibbs and demo. Both had a touchdown and almost a hundred scrimmage yards a piece. I'm in raw 11 catches, 161 yards, two touchdowns. Brian branch and Jack Campbell were lighting people up. That was on branch. Got that huge hit on Ingram. And you know, it was the debut of Zadarius Smith. You know, we had that whole thing with Zadarius. Then he got a sack in this game. It was just like everybody ate and it was just the most solid all around game that we had.
Jason Harwood:Mm
Jacob:So I think that was my favorite one, even though in the end it didn't, this one didn't really matter as much, but a 52 to six win at home was huge. What about you?
Jason Harwood:man.
Jacob:Did you have one, or how many?
Jason Harwood:so I do have one that I think when I thought back about it, cause I had to, I love all our wins. Right. I just
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:different reasons. So I, you know, I'm thinking back of like the last game of the year, you know, getting Alex back and just demolishing, you know, Sam Darnold. That was great. You know, your Jaguars game was great. Blow out the Titans win was great because we scored so many points, but you know, special teams was awesome in that game. There was a lot of just exciting plays in that game. You know, beating green Bay and go for it on fourth down when we're tied to kick the game, winning field, awesome game. But I.
Jacob:These things. Pick your favorite game, and he's gonna tell us every single game that we played this year.
Jason Harwood:no, I'm a let's do it. That these are all these lead up, but the one
Jacob:Yeah.
Jason Harwood:liked the most, it was the Seattle Seahawk game.
Jacob:Okay.
Jason Harwood:his Monday night game. There was big plays in that game. Just so many fun plays, you know, that was the golf reception game. You know, Kirby had that awesome interception. Demo had that great run. There was. You know, we had bad luck against Seattle the last few years, so winning on Monday night, going into that bye week, just felt so good, you know, and I, I think the Seattle game was, was one of my favorite games and it was, you know, it was one of those games where like, it wasn't a blowout, like the Jaguars game was fun and the Titans game are fun, but they're over by halftime. Seattle Seahawks, we were in control for most of that game, but it was still kind of up in there where, you know, there was still competitive and it kept you interested all the way to the end. So I think Seattle, was probably my favorite game of the year.
Jacob:That was the debut of the black jerseys, too, right? The Motor City, yeah.
Jason Harwood:Yep,
Jacob:was a good one.
Jason Harwood:yeah,
Jacob:only I had that one, and I I knew that you were going to have 17 games on here, so I had the one, the other one was the second or first one you mentioned, which was the, the home game against the Vikings.
Jason Harwood:Yep.
Jacob:And just cause you know, the stakes were higher. We had been hearing for weeks that the Vikings were the favorites and that our defense was not going to show up, that we weren't going to be able to stop them. It was essentially round one of the playoffs because you know, the winner got to host the playoff game, the loser had to go on the road, the first 14 win team to go on the road and we didn't want that. So, I mean, the stat sheet wasn't as impressive as most of the other games, but You know, that was a solid dominant game. We, you know, we won the time of possession. We out gained them. But yeah, that was huge. And you know, obviously you won the North.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's a that. was a fun game. Yeah, I could see that being number one for a lot of, a lot of people's game of the year. I think it was just, we followed it up two weeks later with a stinker. So it kind of like made that game not as important. Cause yeah, we got the buy, but we didn't really take advantage of it.
Jacob:I don't think that I get what you're saying. I don't think that us losing made that game as much of a stinker. I think the Vikings looking like crap against the Rams made that like, okay, maybe they weren't. Maybe, you know, they are who we thought they were,
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:you know, just maybe they weren't as good as everyone was saying. And maybe that's why, you know, now we're always going to have that narrative. It's like, well, you know what, they got crushed anyway against the Rams. They didn't look good there either. So I guess it takes some of the excitement or whatever, you know, some of that accomplishment away,
Jason Harwood:I, I, yeah, I could push back a little bit on, on that just because he looked bad in the next game. I think some of it was the pressure of the situation too. And, but Sam Darnold had a very good season. So it's not like he was crap, you know, I mean, We just put them in his place and for all intents and purposes, the Rams might've saw the you know, that was the play playbook to knock Sam Darnold down and they've already in the Rams already had already beat the Vikings earlier in the year or two.
Jacob:right?
Jason Harwood:like, know, Hey, that, that was the advantage we, we had seen, you know, we had already seen Sam Darnold once Aaron Glenda and the Rams had already seen him. So that's consistency there. So I can push back a little bit on that. It just, for me, the Vikings game. We, you know, we won, it was a great game, but then two weeks later, we didn't take advantage of getting that by and getting that home playoff game. So, yeah, exactly. I mean, I, that's why we don't even have to say, you know, our most disappointing game of the year, because obviously it's that stupid commander's game. Yeah, well, it's, it's an easy answer. So, Surprise player of the year. Was there a player that kind of exceeded expectations for you this year, Jacob?
Jacob:Yeah, I had a couple. I actually have the first one is kind of like an honorable mention just because we already talked about him and it was you know, it was Kirby Joseph, but, you know, that's more so just because we knew Kirby was going to be good, but I, you know, I didn't expect him to bring out the level that he did. You know, he said before the season started, he wanted to lead the league in interceptions. He was able to do that. You know, if you ever told me before that he's going to go first team, all pro, he's going to leave the defensive snaps. Like he's going to be the top rank safety. I wouldn't have thought that that was possible. I definitely thought he was one of the best safeties in our division, but not in the league. And that's why it's, you know, he was a surprise to me. Not because I didn't think that he had that in him necessarily. I just didn't think we were going to see that kind of return on it right away. You know, He was consistently great week in and week out, and, you know, we already talked about it, he just had an amazing year, but I do think that, you know, it's worth, like, an honorable mention as a surprise, it's just because we didn't, I didn't think he was going to be quite up to that level that quick.
Jason Harwood:And also we haven't even mentioned like his, his ability to get his nose into the running game that, that has exceeded expectations throughout the whole year and something that they probably, you know, told him, Hey, we're going to need you to do this. And he's been shown to do that because Brian Branch will get his nose up in there and stop the running game. Kirby wasn't that type of player, but there are plenty of times that he was up close to the line of scrimmage, reading a running play and either making the tackle or, you know. forcing the play back inside or doing his job, doing what, what he should be doing.
Jacob:Yes.
Jason Harwood:So for mine, I mean, I, you know, you mentioned Kirby being a surprise. Yeah. When he said he wanted to lead the league in interception, I didn't think that was going to be possible. I just didn't think I was like, I'm glad he has that goal, but I didn't think it was going to be possible. So he exceeded my expectation, but for mine is still in the secondary, but Carlton Davis exceeded my expectation for the year. He was. Darn forced Kyler Murray out of bounds and on a fourth down play and then caused them to get a turnover and downs that play sticks in my mind because that's a Carlton Davis play. He was involved in a lot just, and also just. he was great in coverage and I think he was a great to have Terry on there because that's the type of player we want Terry on to be right their tight coverage, but, you know, he's got to learn those tricks and to have that tape and be able to work with Carlton for the year. I was super happy with Carlton. I know he only had two interceptions on the year, but those were very important interceptions because without those, we don't win that game in the Texans,
Jacob:Right, same game, yeah.
Jason Harwood:you know,
Jacob:No, definitely.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Is there any other players? You said you had some other
Jacob:Yeah, no, yeah, because My top one was a meek Robertson,
Jason Harwood:Mm
Jacob:you know, stay in the secondary, but we didn't really know what to expect out of a meek before the season started. I liked his attitude in the interviews. I liked, you know, what he was putting out there on social media. This is before you even had Twitter.
Jason Harwood:hmm.
Jacob:you know, he was he had the right mindset, right attitude. It was like, OK, I can get behind this guy. But, you know, he seemed like he was ready to fight for a spot, fight for playing time. I also wasn't sure beforehand with the graphics and everything. Like, is this guy going to make the team? Like, what do we have? You know, how is this going to look? Is he going to be able to get playing time and. He looked really good in training camp and he played well pretty much all year long He would you know rake straw guy injured and he stepped in, you know He just played well right away and that culminated with the last game in the Vikings Carlton Davis is out and then he has to cover Justin Jefferson and Holds him to three catches,
Jason Harwood:Yep.
Jacob:know, it just got better and better as a season went on He really stepped up there and then you know, obviously like the devastating injury that happened Like the second play or whatever against the commanders. But, you know, I think it was a it was a surprise that Amik played as well as he did.
Jason Harwood:I was pleasantly surprised with Amik and I'm glad that he's on our team next year and that we could see him, you know, like we said earlier, we don't know where he's going to play is so much. He could play inside or outside. So we'll see how that lines up. Deal. I didn't really have, that was my other player that I would mention.
Jacob:Oh, OK.
Jason Harwood:but I will say it, you know, on the offensive side, I was like, who, who could I pick here? And the only one I come up with, and this is. Not on the level of the players we just mentioned, but mahogany, he exceeded my expectations because, you know, late round pick. Okay. We're hoping he just makes a team, right. Or, you know, is he going to get put on the pack practice squad? You know, he's injured, he's NFI for the first, like what, six weeks of the season. And then all of a sudden later in the season, he, you know, the bears, he's getting. getting a spot start because of an injury and he looks good, you know, and then Sightler's out and he looked good in the playoff game, totally exceeded my expectations. And so, and I look forward to where, where he's going to, it gives us some to move around next year. So I look for him, he's either going to be our top backup or he's going to be starting next year and
Jacob:Definitely.
Jason Harwood:be great.
Jacob:I agree with that. I only have one other person here for my surprise player. And, you know, that's Jack Campbell. We were hoping for the second year leap, you know, word out of training camps that he was, you know, he was putting it all together. And, you know, we finally we saw that on the field for sure. And as long as he went out, you know, he had to step up. Derek Barnes get hurt, Rodrigo, you know, there are so many injuries to the linebackers and the defense, you know, as a whole. So for him to be, you know, he's playing top 10, like that, you know, was a great surprise. His number of tackles, he's right there with Fred Warner and Bobby Wagner. I mean, he, he definitely showed he belongs, he showed he can handle it.
Jason Harwood:that I like I don't like about the injuries, but the, you know, he's trying to look at the bright side of things, right? It put Jack in a spot where he had to be in Alex's spot. So he learned that right. And now, now he could go back and play behind Alex and let Alex run that defense. And he could look at it through a different lens. Like. Jack Campbell's like, I've been in that spot and he can, it's going to be a better position of learning for him. At least that that's the way I feel. And whether he overtakes him with Calvin Shepard, I mean, we don't know, you know, Aaron Glenn and Alex were really close. Calvin might be running something a little different. we don't, we don't know. And Jack Campbell may be calling, you know, maybe he's the green dot next year. We, I don't know, but he played Campbell played really well, but I thought the opportunity to learn and take Alex's spot for a little bit is really going to benefit this defense and him in general. And it gave us a spot to see what, what this future could be look like. Cause you know, we're hoping Jack Campbell's supersedes Alex at some point and you know, we first round pick, right?
Jacob:Right, right. Oh yeah, we're, we're getting. We're getting back on that return already.
Jason Harwood:Yep.
Jacob:but that's a good point. I mean, you know, being forced to take that green dot force to see forced to run the defense, to look at the offense differently, you got to worry about more than just your own responsibility. And then even if he doesn't get the green dot, if it's still Alex's next year, he's still now it's almost like having two green dots right now. You know exactly what you're looking at. You can help direct. I mean, that's best case scenario,
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Well, when you saw Jack was taken out there, there's all those injuries, you know, he's got players that they're pulling off the street and he's got to get them in the right spot. I
Jacob:right?
Jason Harwood:is, I mean, that's tough for anybody that would've been tough for Alex too, right? I mean, you've got guys that weren't on the team at the beginning of the week of that, all of a sudden they're in there playing meaningful snaps and you got to get them in the right spot. So that, that was tough. So.
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:Kudos to Jack. So, you know, plenty more of the soft season to talk about. That's kind of it that I wanted to talk about on those topics, but let's the awards show was last year. Let's quickly run through this. The golf MVP vote. He, he did get some MVP votes, you know? I wasn't expecting him to win by any accounts because there were some quarterbacks that had a lot of good votes. But any thoughts on, you know, how many votes he got and were you surprised by anything with that? And in regards to that?
Jacob:I was worried that he wasn't going to be as high as he was or that, you know, people are going to kind of overlook him after that Houston game and everything like that. So it was cool to see him, you know, get those votes. I'm interested, though, if you if we gave you the vote, if you, you know, you get to pick five, how would your five look?
Jason Harwood:Oh
Jacob:for the MVP.
Jason Harwood:And
Jacob:Would you play golf in your top five?
Jason Harwood:well, we're going to talk a little bit later about my ideas to change the category, but I'm just going to kind of go with what I would definitely, I've probably have Lamar number one. I probably put Josh Allen to borough three, Saquon four, and I didn't have a list prepared. So I'm going off top of my head. don't know if I'd have golf number five. I don't know who'd be number five right now. almost put Gibbs ahead of golf, to be honest with you,
Jacob:Okay,
Jason Harwood:I
Jacob:right, right.
Jason Harwood:but I, when we get down to the category, maybe I'll give, when we get down to ideas that change, I have things that I want to change in the NFB people. So maybe that's why I go, did you come up with the top five?
Jacob:I thought about that too, but I, I think I probably would have picked Josh Allen, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, then probably Saquon. I think I would put Goff in my top 5, but he would probably be, it'd be Josh, Josh Allen, Lamar, Saquon, Burrow, Goff.
Jason Harwood:Okay. Yeah.
Jacob:Just sticking with the theme of the quarterbacks for MVP basically, I mean.
Jason Harwood:I know. Yeah, I Let's just do that right now. Let's just talk about how I would change a category. Cause it has to do with the quarterbacks. I don't like that the MVP has turned into just the best quarterback. I don't, I don't like that. It's like the rookie of the year is also turned into the best rookie quarterback. the
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:hard. You got to have like an outstanding, like a team, a player in another position has to have a really outstanding season to overtake that. So if I were going to change it, I would do like a QB of the year. And then an offensive player of the year that couldn't be a quarterback. And then I would just eliminate MVP. I wouldn't have an MV overall MVP. I just have those two categories.
Jacob:They should do it like Madden. So when you play Madden you do that, they have like quarterback of the year, running back of the year, wide receiver of the year.
Jason Harwood:okay.
Jacob:you know, how college has them named after players, you know, the top running back, the top wide receiver. And then, you know, it doesn't have to be like one for AFC, one for NFC, but it'd be just a separate, like, okay, you know, here's your vote running back of the year and you get to pick five and they're all running backs. Like you said, then you don't even have. A true MVP award because I don't know the only way you'd be able to change that is if you added the extra like quarterback Running back thing, but also have you kind of changed the criteria? I just think it's always going to be perceived that the quarterback is the most value position most valuable position Therefore quarterback needs to be mvp.
Jason Harwood:Do you think if Saquon would have like beat the all time rushing record, he have, been offensive MVP?
Jacob:I still don't think so. I think lamar and josh allen just played too Well,
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:you know when adrian peterson did that I don't think that there were you know as many impressive It was also back before it was Such a quarterback you know, award, but when Adrian Peterson won, I don't think the quarterbacks that were up that year had his, you know, many impressive stats. I'm going to March stat line to not win MVP with those stats is crazy.
Jason Harwood:I know. I
Jacob:that's really only because he's won so much recently. I think the people are like, well, you know, we're going to give it to Josh Allen now,
Jason Harwood:Yeah, that's what I thought, too.
Jacob:But if you take Josh Allen off of the bills team, they tank hard.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Yeah. That Ravens may not as much cause they have a Derek Henry back there, although running back the bills is really good too. Do you, so you mentioned the Adrian Peterson, do you know what year that was that he won MVP?
Jacob:Oh man. I don't like 2007, 2008.
Jason Harwood:12, 2012,
Jacob:wow.
Jason Harwood:that was the last year that. has not won the MVP award was 2012. So it's been, you know, 12 seasons of just who's the best quarterback this year
Jacob:Do you have the voting results in front of you?
Jason Harwood:of for. Like the MVP like what I'm just talking about. Yeah, I do. I have the whole list. Why what's your
Jacob:I just want to know who the quarterbacks were.
Jason Harwood:oh, I didn't
Jacob:Megatron was number four that year.
Jason Harwood:oh, I'm sorry. I just have the list of the winner. So I don't have
Jacob:Oh,
Jason Harwood:who else that year the previous. Yeah,
Jacob:sorry, go ahead.
Jason Harwood:I was gonna say the previous non quarterback besides before Adrian Peterson was Tomlinson and 06. And,
Jacob:the record for touchdowns, right?
Jason Harwood:yeah, but then Sean Alexander was right before that, you know, and, you know, you start getting into like the Barry Sanders and like, you know, when running backs were more important back then than, than they are right now. Yeah.
Jacob:that 2012 year, just cause I was trying to see, cause I remember it was like, no, no quarterback had like, you know, such an outstanding. So, Adrian Peterson won, he had 2, 097 rushing yards and 12 touchdowns. So obviously a lot of yards, 348 attempts. So that's on par with what Saquon was. I don't have Saquon's numbers in front of me, but that's on par. Number two was Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning had 4, 659 yards, 37 touchdowns, 11 interceptions. Jared Goff this year, 4, 629 yards, 37 touchdowns, 12 interceptions.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:So that's almost identical year that Goff had,
Jason Harwood:And they probably
Jacob:and that was second place.
Jason Harwood:right? Peyton Manning and
Jacob:Hey, man, he had six rushing yards. Jared Goff actually outrushed him.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Yeah, that's hilarious. Good pull on the stats there. I
Jacob:Yeah,
Jason Harwood:I mean, the game is a little different now. I mean, it's definitely gotten more passer oriented and you know, we got 17 games as opposed to 16 that were in that, that season. So,
Jacob:right.
Jason Harwood:yeah. All right. Let's get into the. This is the one that's controversial, at least to us Lions fans coach of the year, Dan Campbell did not win. It went to Kevin O'Connell who is a good coach. So we talked about it, man. I'm sure you disagree with this as much as I do.
Jacob:I called it though. I told you, I said, they just, if you win a division and you do that well, when you're expected to do well, they do not vote you as coach of the year.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:for somebody who, whose team was not expected or maybe doesn't belong or, you know, just somebody. Whatever team exceeds expectations by that well, wins coach of the year. And that's why I knew, I thought O'Connell had it in the bag before we even played the last game.
Jason Harwood:I know.
Jacob:Does he deserve it more than Dan Campbell? Absolutely not.
Jason Harwood:Campbell beat him twice,
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:Reed's never won coach of the year, Dan Campbell is going to have a tough time winning now because the expectations are that they're going to be good. This year we were expected to be good, but with all the injuries, you get aid now that that should have pushed. Dan Campbell over the top
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:I looked through the voting to voters that not put Dan Campbell, even in their top five Vicarucci and Adam Sheen or shine. I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Did not put them in their top five. Ridiculous. I did find this Teddy Brewski, who somehow has a vote put them forth, you know, for a guy that said, I wouldn't want Dan Campbell on my sideline,
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:for the coach of the year, talking up out both sides of your mouth,
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah, I just don't, I mean, Vic Carucci I think is a Bills guy. I don't know about the other guy. I believe Vic Carucci is like a Bills. Oh, okay.
Jason Harwood:Adam
Jacob:don't know how you don't have Dan Campbell in the top five. I'm pretty sure both of them had O'Connell first to, you know, it is, what it is just as much as the MVP just become like a quarterback award. The coach of the year is just the most improbable. And that's why you also look at these awards five or 10 years after, and you're like, Oh wow, that coach, he only coached for that team two years before he got fired, but he was coach of the year. Like, or, you know, they like didn't even win a playoff game, but he's coach of the year.
Jason Harwood:I
Jacob:And I think this is one of those situations where, you know, a couple of years from now, we might be like, wow, Kevin O'Connor was coach of the year over Dan Campbell. That's funny. It sucks. I mean, it does. It sucks. It's, you know,
Jason Harwood:I agree. I wouldn't need to beat it a dead horse But yeah, it should have been named Campbell. So Offensive player of the year went to Saquon. The interesting thing that we don't need to go into too much of this, but Tom Brady and Teddy Brewski both voted for Penesool for in their, their top five, which that's awesome.
Jacob:that's awesome.
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:Respect from the former players.
Jason Harwood:exactly. You know, I think Gibbs also got votes and, goff, I think, got some votes too, and Amin Ra got votes. So, I mean, we had a lot of
Jacob:That's cool.
Jason Harwood:votes which was really cool.
Jacob:We got a lot of good offensive players
Jason Harwood:yeah, we did. I mean, really historic offense. I mean, not like the best all time, but right up there.
Jacob:up there.
Jason Harwood:Yep defensive play of the year went to Patrick Sertain, but Kirby Joseph did receive one first place vote. Dave Burkett, who is the Lions writer that has a vote voted Kirby fifth, actually, which I was kind of surprised about that.
Jacob:Who'd he put, don't tell me he put Xavier McKinney in front of him.
Jason Harwood:I don't think so. Here, I will, I will look,
Jacob:It, you know, it was cool to see that Kirby, obviously it was cool that he made the All Pro. We knew he probably was not going to win Defensive Player of the Year, but it was nice that he was actually getting votes and getting recognition there. Instead of getting snubbed you know, about the whole, like, the Pro Bowl thing.
Jason Harwood:Yes. Yes.
Jacob:also voted for McKinney, and most of them had McKinney in front of them. And I just don't, like, I, you know, What metric, what, could you possibly, you know, What are you looking at that he's above Kirby?
Jason Harwood:Exactly. He had more interceptions. His you know, the quarterback rating against was like twice as twice as good as McKinney. So I don't know.
Jacob:Right.
Jason Harwood:you asked about Burkett. So T. J. Watt was his number one miles Garrett to certain was three Hendricks and four and then Kirby Joseph was fifth.
Jacob:I, I would say that's a valid list, I guess. I mean,
Jason Harwood:yeah.
Jacob:This was one of those years where it was just wide open. There was not anybody that took over or had such an amazing year. You know, that they were just cutting dry.
Jason Harwood:Yeah. Well,
Jacob:So I did like that. They didn't just give it right. I liked that. They did not just say, well, you know what, TJ Y had a pretty good year. Let's all just vote him again,
Jason Harwood:Mm
Jacob:though it was not spectacular and was not even the top, you know, edge rusher stats I'd have been cool with Hendrickson winning too,
Jason Harwood:So, yeah, that's kind of all I wanted to talk about the, with the, award show. Was there anything else that you wanted to talk about? Maybe Bill Belichick's girlfriend or something like that.
Jacob:I'm okay. I did see that she wore a Atlanta Falcon Super Bowl shirt, so that was funny.
Jason Harwood:I think Snoop Dogg said his joke. He was going through so many things. He's like, I, you know, he's talking about all football things. He goes, I remember so much that it's before Bill Chuck's girlfriend was even born.
Jacob:Yes. Nice.
Jason Harwood:Oh my God. Hilarious. All right. Before we wrap up here, let's talk about these CJGJ comments. I'm going to read them right here from the Dave Burkett article. Before we comment on it, I'm going to say asked about playing in Detroit, he, this is Gardner Johnson. He said, it was hell. I got lied to. So it was whatever I got told respectfully, I was going to get brought back and did get brought back. And off season went real for me signing back here because I wasn't really tripping it all worked out. And then he's, and he went on to say truthfully, like in Detroit, it was hell. I went there just to go, okay, I got hurt. And I was like, eff it truthfully. That's why I didn't, why I didn't rehab in Detroit. This guy likes to talk, but what
Jacob:Oh, we knew that. You know, when he's on your, when he's on your side, you're a little more tolerant, you know, more tolerable of it, but, you know, I don't blame him, you know, really. When Jamal Williams left, he kind of had the same sort of not as loud and Jamal Williams doesn't say stuff like that, but it was along the same lines of like, you know, they didn't really, you know, what you got out of it is that they probably had some sort of contract to offer. There were probably some terms and he didn't like the terms. So Jamal Williams went elsewhere and it's probably the same year, especially with, you know, cause Garner Johnson only played three games for us. He was hurt. You know, he came back, he did, you know, he played okay, but he didn't play great. So it was like, we have a very small sample size, and now here you are, you're wanting a, you know, multi year contract, you're wanting more money, and now we've got this rookie, Brian Branch, who played, you know, lights out, so we really didn't, you know, yeah, would it have been nice to have him? Yeah, for the right price, but at the same time, that would have been playing time taken away from Brian Branch, or Kirby Joseph, maybe, you know, just, which turned out better for us? Turned out better for us, or turned out better for him? Obviously he feels some type of way. You know, he was talking trash about Philadelphia and their fans the whole time that he was here. That's kind of just who he is. He's one of the best trash talkers in the league. So my feelings aren't hurt about it. And I, you know, I do feel like there's probably some sort of. It's hard to say truth, but I mean, there's probably some, there's some smoke there. Like maybe they told him like, yeah, we definitely, you know, we want you to come back. We're going to set up some, we'll give you this one year deal this year and see how it goes. We'll give you a multi year deal and it didn't go very well. So then that multi year deal was off the table and that might be what he means. He was lied to. Like things change, you know, it's a business. So,
Jason Harwood:But he doesn't, that may be true but also it doesn't go with his rehab comment. Like I didn't rehab there. Like he rehabbed in Florida. Like, so in training camp and the first two games, it was so bad, know, that has nothing to do with the contract. He wasn't going to get a contract extension. signed the one year deal. He knew he was going to go to the next year. If we're going to sign up for a multi year deal, we would have done that right out the gate.
Jacob:right.
Jason Harwood:It does, you know, he's talking to talk.
Jacob:Yes.
Jason Harwood:I just don't like sour grapes and saying it was hell. Cause what other player has said that it's been hell? No,
Jacob:Right. Nobody.
Jason Harwood:nobody, people want to come here. So it's just CJ being CJ. And like you said, he's on your team. You you're tolerant of it. You might even get kick out of it. You like it when he's not on your team. No, you don't like it at all.
Jacob:And this bother you though, when you saw this where you're like, Oh man, screw this guy that bother you. Or cause I really, I saw this and I just brush it off. It was whatever.
Jason Harwood:I, I don't like hearing that the time in Detroit was how I like to kind of take that personally, I guess a little bit, just not, I'm not from Detroit, but you know, I identify with
Jacob:Where, yeah,
Jason Harwood:you know, root for all their
Jacob:you're there pretty frequently and where you're right. We're close.
Jason Harwood:and so like, I, it's, you know, I, I just, I respect Dan Campbell and everything that he's done so much that if you're going to say it's hell, then it's part of, it's like that Dan, that Dan Campbell made it hell. Right? I mean, he's the one that's running the show. He's the one that's setting the environment. And I just. You know, Dan Campbell won't say anything bad about CJGJ. He won't comment on, on this type of stuff. But I'm sure that hurt him a little bit, right? Why, why would, why would he say something like that? But, or maybe he knows CJ enough that it's like, whatever, you know it doesn't. You know,
Jacob:He seemed to enjoy himself when he was here. You know, this is way after the fact,
Jason Harwood:So of weird takes, the last thing that we'll talk about here is the Greg Rosenthal did an interview with Gibbs and, and Dave Montgomery. And he went back on one of his tweets and I'm going to read the tweets. So the difference between this came out right around, right after the draft or somewhere you know, it was before. Jameer Gibbs, you know, I had made his debut in the NFL said the difference between David Montgomery and Jameer Gibbs and Jamal Williams and DeAndre Swift is not large all time. Bad take all time.
Jacob:I love saying these there's like a Twitter. It's like Ferdy's and cold takes, and it's just full of stuff like this. You'll see like The videos of like the draft videos, like the Bills fans, that's one that sticks out to me, is the Bills fans, when they pick Josh Allen, they're all so upset, and they're like throwing stuff, and they just can't believe it. And you know, just, obviously when you're gonna try to put stuff out here like this, you're gonna have these thoughts, and, you know, this is just very, I think we all knew this was probably wrong, right? Before, like, as soon as it was said, I didn't see this right away, but it's like, ah, no, that's, that's not true.
Jason Harwood:I knew it.
Jacob:after the season.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, I knew David Montgomery was a big upgrade over Jamal Williams just from us being in the same division. I knew that Jamir Gibbs is a little more wild card because he's a rookie, but getting draft that high. I just knew if he could stay on the field, he's going to DeAndre Swift and he's turned into, you know, Jamir Gibson and one of the best running backs in the league and, you know, and probably the best dual threat running back in the league right now, I think.
Jacob:Yes, right. Yeah, I mean, it's only going up next year, man,
Jason Harwood:I know if, can you imagine having, you know, still having Jamal Williams on this team and Jandre Swift, oh my God, there's offense wouldn't even be close to what,
Jacob:right? No, no.
Jason Harwood:But. You know, I, I sympathize a little bit with Greg Rosenthal cause like for the first time, you know, last year we were doing, we'll do our NFL review cause we did our, our preview and some of my takes were bad. I know Zach's, Zach's take especially on we'll love us pretty bad
Jacob:Yeah,
Jason Harwood:then,
Jacob:I
Jason Harwood:you
Jacob:wait to revisit that.
Jason Harwood:Exactly. So I mean, I, I get it and putting yourself out there, anybody else that's done does stuff like this or put stuff on Twitter. I mean, that stuff is out there. And yeah, you know, you put your opinion. I like to try to back up whatever my opinion is. So I got like some basis of reason I but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong is it
Jacob:Right. And I mean, it really seems like this you know, that tweet was his honest thought. It wasn't like you know, any kind of like to cause any kind of shockwave or whatever. Like, he really, he really just was wrong
Jason Harwood:Well, I mean, I think, I don't know the timing on this, but I'm betting it was right after draft time, right after the draft, when
Jacob:right after we, yeah.
Jason Harwood:Lions draft, which is hilarious because it's turned into one of the all time best drafts, you know, good Sam Laporta, Branch, Jack Campbell and Jameer Gibbs. I mean, that's, you know, the core of our team and part of the core of our team. And yeah, it's, it's, it's hilarious to look back on that. All right, man. Anything before we head out of here, or we next week, right. It's going to be fun. We got Miko and Morgan coming on. We're going to do the fancy play draft. So we're going to pick our fan, our best drafts. So encourage you to listen to this. I think it's going to be fun. It'd be fun to revisit some of the really highlight moments of the season. And I'm curious to what you're going to be. Some of your favorite plays are, and, yeah, I'm curious what Morgan and Miko and then just like the fantasy draft, Jacob, I'm looking forward to sniping some of your plays right
Jacob:Okay,
Jason Harwood:them.
Jacob:I'm looking forward to your team sucking and being the worst.
Jason Harwood:Okay. Nice.
Jacob:we pick these plays, it's going right to Twitter, it's going right to Reddit. This
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:is a good conversation piece. I want to hear what plays we're missing from other people, and I want to hear who's
Jason Harwood:Yeah.
Jacob:who's playbook is best.
Jason Harwood:So just to give a quick preview, we're going to pick. So it's going to be Miko, Scott, Morgan Cannon from Pride of Detroit, it's going to be Jacob and I. Okay. Okay. We're going to randomly Monday night when we record we're going to randomly pick order and then you pick, you try to build your best five plays from the season. So, and you're the criteria that you come up with. These places, your own, is it the most exciting play? Was it, you know, very influential on the game? Was it just a really fun play that you liked? Was it, you know, your favorite trick play? You know, just whatever. And then at the end of this. We, you know, we're going to debate on who's got the best five place and we'll see how it goes. I think it'll be fun. And we'll see what the only stipulation is. You have to pick one defensive play of your five doesn't, you know, whatever one you want to pick, but you got to have at least one of them has to be a defensive play. So that'll be next week. And like. Jacob said, we'll probably get that up on YouTube. We'll get that up on Twitter and it'll be a good time. And then that, that'll be our pod next week. And we'll see.
Jacob:Gonna be great.
Jason Harwood:Yeah, it'd be fun. Looking forward to talking with Morgan and Miko. We haven't talked to Miko in a while. Morgan, you know, we talk a little more often, but it's always good to catch up with those guys.
Jacob:Absolutely.
Jason Harwood:All right. For Jacob, I'm Jason. Let's go lions.
